Graflex.org

[Gene M]

What WA lenses would you recommend for my 6x9 CG ?

http://westfordcomp.com/classics/graflex23/index.html

[Henry]

Well, there's always the 65 mm Optar in Graphex shutter---if you can find one. It isn't the greatest 65 ever made, but with careful focussing (this is the hardest part) it can yield acceptable results; depends, too, on the degree of enlargement you seek. Pricier, and better, more advanced wide-angles exist. Actually, there was a thread or two on this topic already, back a couple of years ago, IIRC. Try the search feature. Dan Fromm, are you there?

[Les]

65mm angulon, 65mm Super angulaon (this covers 4x5 so it will have movements) 47mm Super Angulon. moderate wides are 80mm WF ektar, 80mm Xenotar, and Planar, these are fast lenses but barely cover 6x7cm,
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"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

[Dan Fromm]

Henry, Les covered most of the possibilities but missed a few of the obscure and really expensive ones.

Should cover 2x3, known to work on a Century: 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon. I b'lieve the 38 Super Angulon XL will cover 2x3. 47/8 Ilex, sold under many names. 50/6.3 Mamiya, for Mamiya Press system. 53/4 Super Angulon. 53/4.5 Biogon. 58/5.6 Grandagon. 58/5.6 (I think its f/5.6, could be mistaken) Koni for Koni Omega (certainly covers 6x7, some think it covers 2x3, I don't know m'self). 60/9 Boyer Perle. 63 or 64 f/6.5 Cooke Ser. VIIb. 65/6.8 "Hamburg Anastigmat." 65/8 Ilex, sold under many names. 80/6.3 (and slower too) Aristostigmat. 80/6.8 Dagor. 85/6.8 Boyer Beryl. 90/6.8 Boyer Beryl. Various slow Protars, too.

NOT RECOMMENDED: 75/4.5 Tominon for Polaroid MP-4 system, lousy at distance and won't cover 2x3 at distance. Sellers on eBay often lie about what this lens can do. ANY tessar type shorter than 100 mm. I wasn't happy with my 65/6.8 Raptar, a 4/4 double Gauss type.

Won't cover 2x3, works fine on a Century: 38/4.5 Biogon.

Gene, your memory's failing. You've asked this question fairly recently and got much the same answers. Asking again will get some teasing and the same answers. If you want lenses that will for sure put good image in the corners, the 80 WF Ektar, 65/8 Ilex or SA, and 47/5.6 SA 47/8 Ilex are hard to beat. The others are iffy, very hard to find, or too expensive. FWIW, I want a 53 Biogon, will probably never get one. Same goes for the 35 Apo Grandy.

[Dan Fromm]

Sorry, I shoot my Century, don't shoot my 2x3 Crown. They're interchangeable. What works on one works on the other.

[troublemaker]

How important is image quality and how much do you want to spend ?
I picked up one of the 65mm Wollensak Raptars (mentioned above by Henry) a couple years ago and used it a lot backpacking.
It's light, uses the same serviceable shutter as the 101 Optars and Raptars (#1 Rapax or Graphex), but that's where the fun ends.
It requires critical focusing for a short lens, and at f~6.8, it isn't easy after sunset or before dawn. However, the lens is coated,and produces reasonably contrasty B&W's and good color.
Based on expereince with some of Schneider's lenses like the Xenar and Angulon, I wonder if thier little 65mm Angulon might not be slightly better than the Raptar (In the 90mm range the Angulon is much better than the Wollensak 90) . I have only seen the 65mm Angulon as a Linhof with Compur shutter and only stops to f~22.
I know you have the 101mm that is a good performer. Image quality is no where near as good with the 65mm Wollensak lens, but it is wide. If I don't enlarge too much, I have been able to crop out some nice 11" harbor panoramas, and shoot some backcountry landscapes that I would not have been able to back into with a standard lens. But 11x14 enlargement is pushing it as far as sharp image quality. Since you like to scan and post medium size images on the internet, it might work out well.

[Gene M]

The Optar is a very nice lens. I'd like something that performs as well.

[Dan Fromm]

[Henry]

"There are no inexpensive wide angle lenses for 2x3."

Well, I got my 65 Optar for $75 at a camera show back around year 2000, I think. Character dealing as "Swamptrader" (beard, boots, flannel shirt, and NC accent---the works) had one out on his table. I didn't try to bargain him down, I was too busy trying to disguise my elation, even though at the time I remember thinking that $75 was a bit on the high side (silly me!). I'd been looking for one at every show for several years until this one turned up, so I plunked for it. I was beginning to think they didn't exist, and it's still the only one I've ever seen.

In addition to the touchy focussing already mentioned, the 65 Optar doesn't allow for much in the way of movements, which is mostly a non-issue on the Century anyway. It's pretty much a straight-ahead lens, unless you like to see converging verticals; for landscape work this is less of a problem. I do perspective correction in Photoshop so it's not a big deal for me.

[troublemaker]

Henry I've seen the little buggers a couple times in the last three years or so, but not nearly as common as the 65 Angulon. I payed about thesame for mine. I saw one once that sold with a complete 2x3 outfit also. I think that set went for around $300.
I did post some examples of how, in the words of a contributer to the post, "awful" the 65mm Wollensak truly is, or isn't, depending on how you use it.
http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NCrx

I know at least one person who sells Holga images for hundreds of dollars, and compared to a coke bottle I don't know which is better. Guess it depends on whether you compare vintage glass bottles or plastic.
Lense quality is relative depending on what one is after. Composition is still prabably more important depending on enlargement size. Said another way, a good lens does not make a good photographer, but a good photographer can make a lame camera and lens do interesting things. Or another way of thinking about it, more challenging !

I figure the value of the shutter into the bargain when thinking of vintage lenses depending on its condition when the thing arrives (many shutters need at least cleaning). My Rapax with the 65mm Raptar mounted failed last year and required a complete cleaning and re-assembly and now runs well. It ran good when I got it but became useless in the middle of a backpack trip. Useable one minute and useless the next...

[Henry]

Agree! And don't forget sample variations---your/his/my 65 Optar/Rapax may be same/better/worse than mine/his/yours.

Fortunately I was able to bring both of my Graphex no. 1 shutters (for the 101 Optar and the 65) up to snuff by means of the infamous "Ronsonol soak," much discussed here over the years. That quick fix (plus a little diddling with the synchronizers) has served me well--knock wood--so far. It must have been a real [censored] disappointment that yours failed when you were out in the field; my sympathies.

Yeah, the Holga thing leaves me cold. I think its kind of a cult thing among a certain fringe element of the hobby. And Coke bottles ain't what they used to be, either!

[troublemaker]

One thing I've found with the Graphex/Rapax shutters, besides hanging up on slow speeds due to gunking up, is that they will begin to trip through on the time and bulb settings. So it was doing that, which makes life less fun when you use those settings a lot, and then I noticed the regular speeds started firing erratically, and then I noticed one of the diaphram cogs jumped the blade controller ring... Still, I came away with some decent images anyways. So you have to dissassemble to get at the diaphram. All good now though. The time and bulb levers usually only need cleaning, but I have had to straighten one set awhile back. They are stacked together so any drag created by old lubes gunked up or the slightest bend and Time will trip through because the two levers need to scissor. Any hesitation causes the tip of the lever to miss its seat on the main drive assembly and thereby lets the drive follow through and close the shutter blades. (Too much information?)

I take a Holga with me on all my trips. It's all (I think) about composition, which challenges my retard mechanism. Since I get out sailing occasionally, I found it to be a fun camera on board, esspecially for people shots. I took one with me on the Hawaii race this summer. But with the couple interesting landscapes I made with them I like to split tone, and then dye with coffee, French roast, served black. I haven't figured a way yet to replicate the crappy image they make so I just go ahead and have fun with 'em. Now, the thing I was thinking to do was somehow mount that chinese plastic optical cult wonder in an old Century shutter I have and gain more control over its crappy awfulness. I thought to epoxy it to the front or back but I don't know if the depth of the shutter will vinette. I don't think I'll be contacting SK Grimes to special fit one for me.

But, if it works, I will have a 60mm square shooter that's just about as awfully crappy as my 65mm Raptar.

[Henry]

Many thanks for that explanation on how to correct for T and B running through. Matter of fact, I am sometimes experiencing that problem with the T setting on my 135 Optar in Graphex no. 2. This is a shutter that was worked on by the guy in Nevada; he didn't fix the synchronizer right, either. I now have no confidence in his ability to repair stuff, and he takes an awful long time as well. (Reminds me of Woody Allen's restaurant review: the food is bad, and the portions are too small.) One of these days I'll poke around inside the works, and with your description I should be able to get things set right. I do have the repair manual, but it's not very good for troubleshooting. At least it has good diagrams.

[troublemaker]

Henry,
since the shutter thing side tracked the topic I sent you a PM with my email regarding the shutter problem.

[Dan Fromm]

Henry, Troublemaker, my little 65/8 Ilex cost $32 delivered. Great price, probably not repeatable. And that's the problem with telling people who want to go shopping now about the wonderful bargains we got some time ago. Shopping good luck isn't always there when most wanted, and even average prices change over time.

Henry, I haven't communicated with Marvin Culpepper for over a year. The last I heard from him, he had fallen on hard times. Health problems that I wouldn't wish on anyone. Nice guy, definitely a character.

Cheers,

Dan