Graflex.org

[eddie gunks]

hello,
i have read the past questions about lubing my 135 optar lens. i will try to free up my slower speeds. what is going to happen when i remove the from element? are parts or springs going to fall out? i am a mechanic, but the last folding camera i tried to open and look at has never worked since. it is like trying toi do rear brakes for the first time...you always need soem one to help put them back together.

i do not want to mess up this lens. it is working except for 1/10 and below. i do not want to make it unusable.

thanks

eddie

[tsgrimm]

I would send the shutter to one of these fine repair shops. Flutots is less expensive.

http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?topic=3816&forum=10&5

[ This Message was edited by: tsgrimm on 2005-12-08 08:20 ]

[t.r.sanford]

Right. Cleaning a shutter is not beyond the ability of a hobbyist, but it requires a good deal of care, strong light, and a measurable chance of failure.

You might consider that "lubricating" probably is not what you are trying to do. Removing dried-up old lubricant from the retarding gears is more likely to help. You will not be able to do that by removing the front cell of the lens; you have to open the shutter.

If you're going to do that, block out some time when you won't be distracted!

[Henry]

Nothing will fall out of the shutter when you remove the front and rear elements (unless something was already loose in there to begin with, which shouldn't happpen anyway). BTW, if the elements stubbornly resist your best non-destructive efforts to unscrew them counterclockwise, I suggest putting the whole business in the refrigerator for about 1/2 hour to shrink the metal lens surrounds, then use a rubber jar lid remover pad to unscrew them. This worked beautifully with my 135 Optar.

As for cleaning the shutter, t.r. is correct that to *remove* gunk probably means a disassembly. But here let me revive an old thread (or several!) and suggest the infamous "Ronsonol flush." Go to your friendly local Ronsonol lighter fluid dealer a/k/a drugstore or supermarket tobacco (ugh!) counter, buy the big yellow container of R'nol, and with lens elements removed from shutter proceed to spritz generously the innards through the openings where the elements used to be---especially the front element as most of the moving parts are in that region of the works. With luck this may be all you need do to loosen up and revive the old lubricant. A variant of this flush is to add very fine powdered graphite, sold as lock lubricant in a little tube at the hardware store, to the Ronsonol. I use a clean empty pin-point oiler (hobby shop) to mix these and apply with. As you are spritzing the works, pause between spritzes to exercise the shutter through all its speed settings (cock and release), and also open and close the diaphragm several times. I have done this procedure on two of my Graphex shutters with good results, i.e., all moving parts functioning smoothly again, with apparent speed accuracy. Be sure to let the shutter innards dry completely before reinstalling the lens elements! An overnight wait is not too long; you don't want to rush this.

I'll perform the above for you in exchange for a brake job. Your town or mine?



[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2005-12-08 13:29 ]

[troublemaker]

Eddie,
check this out http://presscameras.graywolfphoto.com/graphex.html
The page can be reached also through the Graflex.org links pages. Click on used photo equip and scroll down till you find graywolf.
If you want to service the shutter I highly recommend having one in good opperational order side by side for reassembly the first time. Or, take detailed photos or drawings of how and where each spring is located. But nothing worked for me like having the good one for reference (that I could pop open and see where that spring went I just spent an hour looking for). Most manuals say do this and do that, but don't exactly offer hands on put the spring just so or offer procedural type how to direction type stuff. I've spent long hours just looking at these things so I know how, why and where things go and opperate and so on. There are certain ways to put these things together, and often it seems an extra hand would be helpful, but I figured if someone put it together once, it can be done again. Perhaps get a another junker shutter for experience and then go after the piece you want to work well. Let me know how far you get with it and I'll be glad to offer some tips, or a good beer. IF you take it apart, vacume the floor first, and expect to spend as much time looking for that one littel spring or screw that tries to get away as you do actually working on the shutter. one last thing, there should not be any left over parts like there are when doing brakes...and the tools are noticeably smaller. (sorry)
stephen

[Henry]

That's a good link that troublemaker provided, and I just want to emphasize that what I described above is NOT a "prolonged soak" in Ronsonol but a series of spritzes, i.e., "squirts" auf Englisch. It's true that there are paper or thin fibre insulators in the flash synch mechanism that you don't want to dissolve the adhesive thereof. Following the procedure I described, there should be no such problem---at least, I didn't have any.

[eddie gunks]

thanks troublemaker, i will be sure not to have any left over parts!
henry, thanks for the time. this was just the info i was looking for.
i will take the above advice and wait till i get my korona view back from the bellows repair shop. i want to make sure that i have one LF camera to shoot with at all times!
so far all my images from this camera are very good, i can not wait to use all the shutter speeds. hahaha. i will keep you all posted. thanks
eddie
ps. henry, come on up to NY and i will be happy to help with the brakes...for the last 7 years i have been doing body work. can i beof additional assistance?

[Stang1968]

[troublemaker]

eddie,
I am goinf to be tearing down a couple Graphex shutters soon and perhaps documenting with photos. May be you can wait till i have time to do this and download a few images. I intend to make some guide images for a few different maintenance procedures i have worked out but trying to find somewhere to host them.
Also, for some people this ronsonal soak thing (no offence Henry or anyone else) is a patch, and even if it works is bad for the shutter. The only one I tried it on seized up worse than leaving it alone. The big problem is mainly gunked up old lubricant, or too much and has migrated to wear it is not supposed to be. I had to redo a couple before I got it right.
Stephen

[RichS]

Stephen,

I'd be happy to host them along with the Gralfex manuals on my site. And it would finally give me the excuse to get more room on the server as it kind of ran out recently...


_________________
----------------------------------------
"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
----------------------------------------

[eddie gunks]

thanks trouble,
i will gladly wait till you have posted some photos. that would really help me. i plan to shoot for awhile. i got some great images again of all the snow here in NY. i will not do anything until my new bellows arrive. i can not be with out BIG negs! lol

eddie

[troublemaker]

IT might be a while before I can put it together. Eddie might want to have it done by Flutots if they are as reasonable as thier listings present. Then you will have a nice running piece. But keep in mind, these shutters are what they are, and that is why they send you a speed chart. Some are pretty used up, and others come back quite nicely.
Have fun,
Stephen

[Dan Fromm]

[Murray@uptowngallery.org]

I'm going the Flutot route myself.

There are plenty of good endorsements, reasonable prices. There are plenty of people who are successful with Ronsonol and their own CLA, but I have screwed up every shutter I have worked on and I am out of cheap ones, so I'm done.

The last one I had a pro CLA told me NEVER do a solvent flush on an assembled shutter, even if it works for some people...he said you usually just displace stuff somewhere else it doesn't belong. There are probably people who would argue against this based on their success.

I guess it's the old 'don't gamble any more than you can afford to lose' story. I now have a couple pinhole cameras and others for which to save pocket change to 'undo' my own repairs ).

Murray

_________________
Murray

[troublemaker]

its like anything Murray, everyone is good at different things. expereince is also indespensible, along with a lot of patience, desrire or passion, and enough staying power to see something through to success. what I hear a lot is that, in short, things get taken apart, and the time was or effort if you will, was not spent to complete the attempt. Nothing wrong with failed attempts. I left A supermatic shutter in a box partially dissassembled for months until I felt the neccessity to figure it out. For example, all those failed or bad photographic attempts are a part of the learning process. But where a person has the desrire to push on to get the images they are seeking, they may not have the same initiative when it comes to the mechanical realm of retards, pallets, millisecond scales, and subassemblies. Most folks just need the thing to work for thier purposes.
Also, besides the issues in using lighter fluid and other liquids to flush a shutter, I am finding shutters with Graphite that has migrated all throughout the mechanisms. It is not much of a lubricant for anything but dry lubing padlocks. There are also thousands of different kinds of oils and greases, and one should understand the chracteristics and intended application for the product they are using.
Anyway, Just more mumbo-jumbo