I have a graflex "23" back that is odd...

I had neg's that went over each other so after some troubleshooting I found out I the roll film holder performs like a 6x7, but the mount has a 6x8 opening. Also I do have only 8 exposures on the counter. What happened here? I have the repair manual and get the impression there is a wrong cam inserted in the holder. Is that the only possible cause? Are these cams available somewhere (I guess not)?

Quote:

On 2006-06-16 23:52, reinierv wrote: I have a graflex "23" back that is odd... I had neg's that went over each other so after some troubleshooting I found out I the roll film holder performs like a 6x7, but the mount has a 6x8 opening. Also I do have only 8 exposures on the counter. What happened here? I have the repair manual and get the impression there is a wrong cam inserted in the holder. Is that the only possible cause? Are these cams available somewhere (I guess not)?

Reiner, is your roll holder's casing marked Graflex-Subsea? Is the film carrier knob advance or lever advance?

I ask because years ago I bought a Graflex-Subsea, supposedly new old stock in shelf-worn original box, never used, etc. The casing's gate was 56x79, the casing had the proper pin roller on each side of the gate, and the film carrier's frame counter went to 8 and stopped advancing after 8 frames. It turned out that the carrier had been assembled with the wrong gears.

I had it made right by Armato's, a former Graflex warranty service shop in NYC. But since you're in the Netherlands and I doubt that the original Mr. Armato is still active in the business, your best bet is probably to have it rebuilt by Fred Lustig. If anyone has the parts, he does.

Good luck,

Dan

No, it is not a subsea and it is lever-advance. BUt indeed the rolls are also at the 6x8 distance

Looking at the screws that hold the top-plate they are not scratched and the black paint is in perfect condition. So you may be right it is a wrong assembly. I see if I can find fred Lustig, don't have a mail address but should be able to find it with google I guess

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: reinierv on 2006-06-17 08:29 ]</font>

reinierv,
The roll holders were only made in 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 versions. Check the gate opening of the shell again and the insert for correctness, all inserts will fit into all shells.
What manual do you have?
The only internal difference between the Graflex roll film holders is the number of teeth on the gears that move the film and counter. There is NO cam in the roll holder.
If the shell and insert match for format frame size and you are getting overlap then the gear train needs a CLA. Several users have reported improvement/fix by just removing the wind lever and cleaning and lubing the ring, pinion planet, and pinion sun gears. More severe cases require complete disassembly and full clean /lube /reassembly of the holder.
Fred's contact information is on the home page under some links accessable in the Related Web Sites link (http://www.graflex.org/news/lustig.html
).
My 6x9 holder (23 Graphic) has a gate opening in the shell of 77.8mm x 57.06mm and a plate on the insert that is 77.3mm x 68mm. digital caliper used for measurements. I have sucessfully CLAed a lever wind RH/10 using the manual for a RH20 (220 film) back manual.

Charles

_________________
Graflex Corp.was a <font color=white>(silent)</font> supporter of Rain Forest Devastation.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2006-06-17 23:06 ]</font>

Beste,
One of your compatriots in Roermond might also help.
Check your PM box.
mvg
Georges

I found out that although the holder was in a 23 mount, it actually was an older RH instead of an 23 holder.

I opened the housing, cleaned inside and added some grease and everything seems to be fine now...

So it wasn't a 6x7 after all. As a note I also found out that a 6x7 back was only made for RH, a 23 holder was only made in 6x6 or 6x9. At least that is what the service manuals show me.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: reinierv on 2006-06-20 03:55 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: reinierv on 2006-06-20 03:57 ]</font>

https://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?topic=4109&forum=1