Hello,

I have been searching through this website for information on serial numbers and dating Graflex products. Other than finding the range of years that a specific model was produced and the letter system used in final 10 -15 years, I find nothing. Does anyone have factory records which provides this information? Or, are there any publications that provide this? If so, it would be of great benefit to Graflex enthusiasts to have this available on the website. I guess I fear that historical data could someday be lost if it is not published to the general population. If manpower is required to sift through the data, I would volunteer to help. Other cameras, such as Hasselblad, have this information available (thanks to Rick Nordin's treasured book, "The Hasselblad System Compendium") and it adds to the enjoyment of collecting!

Also, if someone can explain Graflex's methodology on seriel numbers (did they assign blocks of numbers to certain years, or by model, etc.)?

Thanks for your help and excuse my ignorance if the data is right in front of me!!!

Most of the serial records were spirited out of the factory by a long time employee just as the evil creditors were bashing down the gates.

As time passed at least three people have been chosen to "keep" a copy. The original still resides with him along with publishing rights. The Keepers of the Copy have been sworn to keep the owners name a secret (mainly to keep hords of people asking for a copy) and not to publish, or make a profit from the material. But one can answer questions about specific cameras-- ie How old is my camera?"


The way the system worked in the begining is that they entered an order number, the number of cameras to make and the type of camera. Most of these lots were small, from 1 to 300 or so. Since F&S made cameras under the Ekc name there were many models and the batches were haphazard. 30 RB Cycle Graphics could be followed by a batch of Factographs to something like "1 10x12 Special camera for Ekc" or "3 Special Cameras 4x5 RB Speed Graphic 3 3/4" lensboard" then the serial numbers would be entered.

AFter that, the cameras were built. Dates don't show up in the book until 1921, before that is an educated guess.

The time lag is something hard to pin down. Was the first of the batch made right away? Was the last camera of the previous batch made before the first of the next? How long did it take to get to the last serial number. There are a lot of unkowns.

I have to believe several models of cameras were being made at the same time even though serial batches were entered on different dates.

Also the importance of the camera would have a bearing on the time lag. The batches of Mini speeds entered before it was introduced to the public were made faster than, say the last few numbers for a huge studio camera.

As time marched on the batches got bigger, and I have to believe the time lag varied more. During the war the batches were typically 1000 to 3000. But pressure was on to get them done so the time lag may not be great.

In the 50s they set aside very large batches of numbers for each model and size, then from within these batches, they entered smaller batches of of 1500-3000. But by the late 50s and 60s pressure to make these had diminished. The demand just wasn't there. In the late 50s they instituted an alpha numeric code that was stamped on the camera when it was built. I have seen the date of this code be as much as 2 years after the date of the serial number in the book.

So at this point the only thing to do is to ask someone on the help board and leave your serial number, and hope one of the chosen three read it.


Unlike Hasselblad, Nikon, Leica With Graflex, there are a lot of unkowns, variables for the historian to get lost in. There are gaps in the serial numbers. canceled cameras and jobs,
cameras with the 'wrong' serial, "No you don't have an 0 Graphic, it says here itsa 5x7 Home Portrait Gralfex" Also variations within a model are not noted, no Graphic Specials, no Model 1000s or FP Graphics or even XLs.

Les,

Thank you for taking the time to provide this history. I'll have to gather up all my serial numbers and submit them to the "help" site. I am glad to hear that someone has the official records so the history will be passed down. Who knows, maybe someday a book will be published titled, "The Graflex System Compendium". Take care.

Can someone please date for me a Speed Graphic, SN# 873669?

Thank you

Fall 1951

How about a Crown Graphic s/n 880476

Heck, I can't resist any longer. How about a 4x5 Speed Graphic with SN# 825224?

Thanks a bunch, Gandolf, for the information.

1949-1950

How about dating my 45 Crown, Ser. No. 880105?

Alec


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: alecj on 2002-01-31 06:50 ]</font>

1953

Thanks, Gandolf. I've got the invoice for the camera dated that year, so it went into use fresh from the factory.

What's the date on the invoice? that'l help trying to figure out the time lag/

As I remember, it was in December [he got it for Christmas, his wife said]. I'll have to hunt it up for the exact date.

I'm in the process of acquring a Crown Graphic with s/n 915057. I humbly ask the Great Wizards to tell me when it was manufactured.