i need to compare the features of these two similiar but different cameras side by side, but what i need to know tonight is this:
1) what's the difference in shutter speeds from slowest to fastest between them ? isn't the slowest speed on the SERIES D 1/10 sec while the slowest speed on the SUPER D is 1/30 sec ? isn't the high end on both 1/1000 ?
2) which one has flash sync terminal and which doesn't ?
3) which one has the auto diaphragm lens feature and which doesn't ? is it actually faster to use with the auto diaphragm ?

thanks again
LL

Quote:

On 2004-08-17 19:38, littlelou wrote: i need to compare the features of these two similiar but different cameras side by side, but what i need to know tonight is this: 1) what's the difference in shutter speeds from slowest to fastest between them ? isn't the slowest speed on the SERIES D 1/10 sec while the slowest speed on the SUPER D is 1/30 sec ? isn't the high end on both 1/1000 ? 2) which one has flash sync terminal and which doesn't ? 3) which one has the auto diaphragm lens feature and which doesn't ? is it actually faster to use with the auto diaphragm ? thanks again LL

You are right about the shutter speeds, the Super's offical low is 1/30. It's the Super that has the shutter sync, but it will only handle flash bulbs at 1/1000, and they will be special (expensive) bulbs at that. It does allow for an approx 1/5 of a second shutter on the "drop curtain" and you can use this with electronic flash, but that's the only speed for X sync


The faster camera depends on how it's operated.

If the Series D is operated like the Super D--- open the lens, focus, stop the lens down, shoot; then the Super D will win hands down every time.

But if you focus and shoot with the lens stopped half way down (or have good enough eyes to focus stopped all the way down) then the Series D will shoot faster, as you won't have to cock the lens.

There are better cameras to use with a flash. I use my Graflex the way it's intended..outside

Since this is a Graflex Question, I will wait until Littlelou replies and then move this to the Graflex forum.

Well while we're waiting, I want to add a comment to something Les said that's kind of wrong. The statement was that the Series D would be faster than the Super D if you're focusing & shooting stopped down, because with the Super D you would have to open the aperture. This is not exactly true, there's nothing stopping you from not recocking the aperture, and just leaving it stopped down, so both cameras would handle with the same speed.

And I believe (although I'm not 100% sure) that using the 'auto open flash' method (the drop shutter) you could also use more normal flashbulbs (they wouldn't need to be the special focal plane ones).

_________________
-Mike

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MikeS on 2004-08-18 03:11 ]</font>

Good points!, but a 1/5 of a second will be hard to hold and not get ghosting from ambient light.

sorry about delay
i was out of town on a couple assignments
i don't own a SERIES D or SUPER D yet
but i'm weighing the pros + cons
i wanted to double check with you guys
what the slowest shutter speeds were
with the SUPER D vs SERIES D cameras
because one of the best shots i ever took
was at 1/15 second shutter speed
(handheld pan of jumping horse with B+W ASA 50)
so i think that with 1/30 you're closer to the edge
where you can really use that extra stop
especially with slow films and filters
at sunrise and sunset
so there are definitely times
where having that 1/10 sec shutter speed will be the difference between getting the shot and not
is that your general experience as well ?

Well, with 35mm I certainly understand it, but there's this nasty problem called curtain travel time.

With a 35mm the focal plane shutter snaps wide open and then closes below 1/60th of a second.

Because Graflexes use a one piece curtain, it doesn't do that. It still has a slit and it takes longer than 1/10 to get a 1/10 of a second.

I think the widest slit on a Series D is 1 1/2 inches. If the curtain travels 1 1/2 inches in 1/10 of a second then it will take 3/10th to travel the 4 inches of the film.

3/10ths or 1/3 of a second will be darn hard to hand hold and not blur. Maybe that's why they removed the lower end speeds on the Super D.

Les

this is excellent
because we're getting to the heart of a technical issue
that will determine which camera system i adopt
it might take even longer than 3/10 second
for 1.5" slit to travel top to bottom of film plane
because it's a 5" vertical (4" is the width)
so what does this formula translate to with SUPER D
where the slowest shutter speed is 1/30 second ???
in reality what's the approximate slowest shutter speed exposure with the camera set to 1/30 second?
by the way is there any bellows factor to be concerned with whe using the SERIES D or SUPER D
when maxed out ?
thanks again
k

ps
les you're very perceptive
the basis for these questions
is because i'm attempting to jump from 35mm to 4x5
for some of my new handheld action stuff
i'll point you to my website for reference
if there's a way to email you separately
i tried using your private link
but got error message

I don't have a Super D to measure the largest slit.

Let's assume it's still 1.5 Inches, and you are shooting vertically.

5 / 1.5 = 3.3333 or 3 and 1/3 X the shutter speed which is .03333 (1/30)= .111111 or 1/10 of second.

If the slit is smaller, then the overall time gets longer.

And these mathmatical truths are only true if the main spring and bushings are new, and you've adjusted the shutter speed during a full moon while in the shadow of the original Graflex factory. At any other time, the real shutter speed will be slower. That's true for any Graflex or Graphic more than 5 years old.

email LN_Photo@yahoo.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2004-08-19 20:14 ]</font>

Les:

Yes, it's still 1.5" on the Super D. And I believe either model would have the 1/5th second unofficial speed as well, so the Super D just has a larger jump from it's slowest speed to it's next slowest!

Another interesting thing with the Super D, unlike the shutters in the Pacemaker series that use a governor to slow down the shutter for the slower speeds, the Super D has the same shutter tension setup as all the other Graflex cameras do, but instead of being numbered 1 - 6 the 1 position is marked L and the 6 position is marked H with the inbetween settings unmarked. They must have changed the spring tension because the difference between the L and H settings is nowhere near the difference between 1 and 6, but I wonder if there's any reason why the inbetween speeds couldn't be used anyway?

mike
in previous post what do you mean by:
"I believe either model would have the 1/5th second unofficial speed as well..."
are you saying that the SERIES D and SUPER D
more realistically speaking
probably both have a slow shutter speed
of approximately 1/5 second
regardless of what's on the chart on plate
on the side of the camera ?
when taking meter readings
and figuring out exposures
this is really an important factor
thanks again
kurt

Both cameras have an 'unofficial' speed of around 1/5th second by setting the shutter to the open setting (with the mirror down it's light tight), and the highest tension (#6 on a Series D, or H on the Super D) and when you trip the shutter, as soon as the mirror raises, the shutter closes which gives you the 1/5th speed which is not listed on any of the charts.

ok
i'll play with the 1/5 speed
and see what that's all about
over + out
kurt