alright, im not sure if this would go in lenses, since its really a question about shutters, but here goes...

im looking into getting started on 8x10, and i havent seen any 8x10s with focal plane shutters, and ive noticed most lenses that cover 8x10 are shutterless barrel lenses. the question is, what do 8x10 cameras do for a shutter? is it just the old 'lens cap off and on' trick? that just doesnt seem too feasible, especially if you need fast speeds.

im obviously in the dark here. can any of you 8x10'ers enlighten me?

Plenty of 8x10 lenses with shutters. It's just barrel lenses are cheap. OTOH with 8x10 you're also likely to be at F/45 or so. That means something like a packard shutter could be installed on the camera without causing too many problems. It all depends on what you're doing and how much you want to spend.

Like Nick said, there are plenty of shuttered 8x10 lenses around. Most of them are expensive though. Look at a place like KEH as they list lens coverage.

You can get deals in 8x10 lenses, but they'll be old ones like Rectographs (no coffee yet so I can't remember ). Many of the older lenses work great though. And just like 4x5, a "normel" lens is generally cheaper. In 8x10 that would be around 300mm or 12 inch. The older ones won't be coated...

You can easily get away with a barrel lens and a packard shutter, but they only give you one speed so are less flexible...

And DO NOT buy a lens in a dial-set "Universal" shutter. These are large black shutters with a dial at the top that usually have an indicator in the dial that looks like an arrow. You can see an example on SK Grimes site. It's the one and only worthles shutter that never works and can't be repaired, and they are common on the old lenses for 8x10. I have one here and can vouvh for it's non-worth!

Just keep your eyes open, don't beleive everything you read on ebay! And check with KEK, Lens & Repo and some other used site to see what's available. You should be able to figure out what's around and works in a few days of reading and searching...

And if you come up with any specific questions, you could always come back here with them

One resource I always recommend for lens searching is the book "Large Format Optical Reference Manual" by J.L. "Woody" Wooden. It's a fantastic lens reference and will usually tell you if a specific lens will cover 8x10 (or any other format). I don't have the link for it right now, but a web search should find it. The author has a site at: http://www.jlwoodywooden.com
And there another site that sells it on-line with credit card purchases...

I forgot to mention that Midwest http://www.mpex.com/frames.html
has an 8x10 only section. All lenses are in shutters unless otherwise specified...

Two speeds with a packard-) Instant and bulb. How much of an issue is this really? With fast [400 ISO] film at full sun and F/45 you're facing 1/50th of a second. Early in the day or with some cloud and you get pretty close to needing multiple second exposures. It's worse of course with slower film. I also wonder how accurate the fast speeds are on those old shutters. If you're the typical outdoors photographer I'm willing to wager you aren't going to need those faster speeds ever. If you need to shoot relatively wide open then it's a different issue but with big formats small apertures become more the norm.

Then you've got me trying to build a big box camera using paper. With a speed around 3 a shutter just isn't that important.

While not common, they did make focal plane shutters for 8x10. In england, they put the shutter just behind the lens, Here in the US, our friends Folmer and Shwing made focal plane shutters that fit just infront of the film.

But at this size focal plane shutters start playing tricks. There's the equivilent exposure, and there's the shutter travel time.

I'm making these dimensions up but you'll get the idea.
The typical Graflex has a 1/8" slit for 1/1000th shutter speed.. Lets assume they continued the practice with the 8x10 version.

Assume we have instant start and the curtain travels at a constant speed across the film. The curtain expsoses any given 1/8" slit in 1/1000th of a second. But our film is 10" long so it will take 80/1000ths of a second for the shutter to travel (or 64/1000ths if you're in landscape mode) 80/1000th reduces down to 8/100ths or about 1/12th of a second.

No wonder race cars lean in those old photographs.

I've shot 8x10 for several years. I tend to be a landscape/architectural photographer and my old photographer friend is right. MAGIC HAPPENS with an 8x10 and a 10" Wide Field Ektar.

I Don't think the camera itself matters much (as long as it's not a Century Portrait) Stick to a 2D Kodak or the clones made by Korona, Agfa and if cheap enough, Gundlach.

Make sure the camera is stout enough to have a balancing board.. this is a board with a tripod socket and some brass rails. The camera then slides into this so you can balance the camera over the tripod.

Kodak and Century made "No.1" cameras which were light weight and lacked this feature. Many times with longer lenses the front of the camera would be a foot or more away from the tripod out bobbing in the breeze.

As for shutters, Most of the big lenses from the '50s-60s will be in Acme, Ilex shutters and they only go up to 1/50th anyway. You just don't need very fast shutter speeds with 8x10.

I just shot my daughter's class and Greenfield Village with both the 8x10 and a P&S digital camera. Now I had the benefit of a shutter with the WF Ektar. My exposure was f16 1/30. Had I had my 10" Apo Anastigmat in barrel I might have stopped down to get the exposure closer to the 1/4 of a second "lenscap flop"

there's also the "country shutter" The simplest version is an old 4x5 film box (one half) taped to a paint stick with duct tape. The paint stick gives you leverage so a small amount of movement with your hand can move the box/lenscap the full amount. consider it a "flick of the wrist"
my fastest time with a Calumet shutter tester....1/15th of a second about the time of a Packard shutter.

As if this post wasn't long enough...




<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2004-05-27 10:05 ]</font>

Quote:

On 2004-05-27 09:06, Nick wrote: Two speeds with a packard-) Instant and bulb. How much of an issue is this really? With fast [400 ISO] film at full sun and F/45 you're facing 1/50th of a second. Early in the day or with some cloud and you get pretty close to needing multiple second exposures. It's worse of course with slower film. I also wonder how accurate the fast speeds are on those old shutters. If you're the typical outdoors photographer I'm willing to wager you aren't going to need those faster speeds ever. If you need to shoot relatively wide open then it's a different issue but with big formats small apertures become more the norm. Then you've got me trying to build a big box camera using paper. With a speed around 3 a shutter just isn't that important.

You could esily get away with the 1/15 or so a Packard will offer. First thing to know is that older Packards did not have the "instant" option. It was squeeze to open, let go to close... A good bulb (and hand) can get 1/10 out of them as I understand it...

But if you have the option, shutter speed does help. With the larger formats, depth of field is a serious issue, along with vibration, shake, and moving tree limbs etc... I try to get a balance between f-stop and shutter speed. My last Sunny outing saw shutter speeds of 1/15 and 1/30 in use (or was that 1/10 and 1/25?)...

Generally, if you wait and shop, you can find a devent lens in a decent shutter for the same cost as a lens in barrel and having a shutter is a nice convenience. But you're right. If you don't have a shutter on 8x10, you could easily use a 100 speed film and stop down for a long exposure... I'll try to stick with shutters though

And like Les said, most of those older large shutter only went to 1/50 anyway. And more often than not, any of those shutters that are supposed to go higher only really go up to 1/50 too.

And Les... Now that I see your 8x10... I hate you!