I have seen some mention of streaking caused by uneven developement with these tanks.
It sounds like inadequate agitation of the liquid.
Anyone experienced this?
Would it help it you only half filled the tank with six sheets, instead of twelve.
Just wondering before I paid big money for one.

I've not seen the Doran tank, but an illustration on the B&H site suggests that it is the same general sort of thing as the ancient Yankee daylight cutfilm tank (around for half a century, still available). I've used the Yankee tanks since 1960, for sheet film (including "Ektachrome") and film pack (when you could get it), and I never had a problem. This has been true even with fairly energetic developers requiring short immersion times, like the old "DK-60a."

I've noticed that some large-format workers, who learned with open tanks and cutfilm hangers, are deeply suspicious of these plastic tanks with their molded rails, and don't see how you can really agitate them satisfactorily. But you can. The tank is not filled all the way to the top, even with 4X5. You agitate it by sloshing it and rocking it (rather gently) in the same direction as the orientation of the film, so the developer moves back and forth between the sheets of film.

Again, I speak of the Yankee tank. The Doran tank may differ somewhat in internal arrangement. If someone has a Doran tank, perhaps he or she might describe it.

The Doran is supposed to be a federal tank. Were Federal tanks different then Yankee tanks?

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On 2003-12-27 10:35, primus96 wrote: I have seen some mention of streaking caused by uneven developement with these tanks. It sounds like inadequate agitation of the liquid. Anyone experienced this? Would it help it you only half filled the tank with six sheets, instead of twelve. Just wondering before I paid big money for one.

I haven't but I'd wager it's likely the problem is too much agitation not too little. Those kinds of tanks take a lot of chemicals when they start going I bet it's closer to a tidal wave.

You say big money. How much is that? If you look over the archives you'll find info on everything from trays to various kinds of tubes. If you buy used none will be big money.

Adorama website lists Doran tank for $25 and change, Yankee tank for about $39; the prices are the same on B&H Photo site.

A lot of these perennial darkroom appliances seem to appear as the same item under different names, over time. I'd not heard of Federal as a manufacturer of developing tankes -- they made very good enlargers, in my recollection -- but someone, perhaps FR, made a cut film tank very like the Yankee, in the late '50s or early '60s. It may have been identical, for all I can tell.

Has anyone looked into the manufacture of these things?

Doran makes both now. If you go to the Doran website you can download the catalog. The Yankee tank looks different to me then the Doran but it's possible they've changed over the years. I almost bought a Federal tank but decided to piece together a Jobo tank setup. I've also got a FR 116 roll film tank that I've always assumed was a Federal.

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On 2003-12-27 16:25, Nick wrote: Doran makes both now. If you go to the Doran website you can download the catalog. The Yankee tank looks different to me then the Doran but it's possible they've changed over the years. I almost bought a Federal tank but decided to piece together a Jobo tank setup. I've also got a FR 116 roll film tank that I've always assumed was a Federal.

Pardon spelling errors, if any. FR = Fink-Roslieve, Federal something starting with R. They made all sorts of gear, up to small press cameras.

Cheers,

Dan

Many thanks for pointing us to the Doran website -- hard to find with a search engine, but good reading when you get there!
Doran Enterprises, Inc.
http://myweb.ecomplanet.com/DOEI4233/
The "Doran" cut film tank illustrated looks for all the world like the old "Yankee" tanks of which I was thinking (I still have one). The interior is not pictured, but the manufacturer may assume it need not be, since this style of tank has been around forever.

If it is, in fact, the classic "Yankee" design, it carries the film between curved rails molded on two vertical racks that can be positioned in grooves formed in opposite interior faces of the tank, to accommodate different film sizes.

The new "Yankee" tank in the Doran catalog is different, carrying the film between two horizontal racks that appear to move on a vertical core to accommodate different film sizes, much like the reel flanges in the old FR Adjustable Rollfilm Tank. This would have certain advantages: you could remove all the film at once, without handling it, for transfer to another vessel (perhaps for washing). The added complexity probably accounts for the higher price.

In any event, if the Doran tank is what it seems to be, I'd have no hesitation whatever about buying and using one.

In downloading the catalog I got to see the illustrations of both the Yankee Agitank and the Doran cut film tank. They are not the same beast.

The Yankee tank is the same we've all known and loved and sloshed. I even managed to find an old one with the clear top* and the brass spikes that you run through Ektachrome and pack film, so if I even need to process some E-4 Ektachrome or some Super XX pack film, I've got the equipment.

*this came with a clear top for the basket to re-expose the Ektachrome, part othe process for E-4)

The Doran is the old FR tank which is more trouble than it's worth.

I've used the FR, Yankee and the Combi Plan tanks. The only way I get even development in any of these is to fill the tank first (inthe dark) then drop the loaded basket of film in, close the lid and go light.

You can't do that with an FR tank. The slots are part of the body and the lid is a three piece unit and it isn't the easiest to assemble inthe dark.

The problem with any of these is that you can't fill them fast enough. You end up with these streaks caused by the initial developer soaking part of the film as it fills. A water pre-bath will help this but the best use of an FR tank is to hold pencils.

Right you are! Mine is, indeed, an FR tank.

Opinions differ, of course. I don't suppose any of the "daylight" tanks is ideally suited to today's 100°F. chemistries. However, I think the fill time is comparable to that of a 32-fl.oz. "tall" stainless steel rollfilm tank, if you set the thing on a slight angle and pour briskly from a wide-mouth graduate. I've never had any trouble with uneven development (and I've never used a presoak for B&W, although now that you mention it, it sounds worthwhile).

I developed (though not often!) E2 process "Ektachrome" in mine, but only two sheets at a time, so fishing them out for the photoflood reversal exposure wasn't too difficult.

My FR tank is a bit deep for pencils, but it would make an interesting flowerpot!

Pick up a JOBO 2500 series tank and reel(s), use it one time and you'll never go back to the others discussed.
Charles

Descriptions of the Jobo 2500 suggest a system very economical of chemistry, but a bit on the costly side. Do you have to use the Jobo motor base, or would an old Beseler motor base (for the color processing drums) work as well? Must you use continual agitation?

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On 2003-12-29 08:26, t.r.sanford wrote: Descriptions of the Jobo 2500 suggest a system very economical of chemistry, but a bit on the costly side. Do you have to use the Jobo motor base, or would an old Beseler motor base (for the color processing drums) work as well? Must you use continual agitation?

I'm also using a 2500 and IMHO it's great. The thing is it's not great just for 4x5 it's great for 35mm,120 or even for prints. I normally use my 2500 on a motor base. Without going to look at the label I'm not sure who made the base but it's nothing fancy. Some people use the tanks like any other tank. But if you do then you lose the benefit of low chemistry use. I wouldn't be too thrilled about trying to agiated that big thing when it's full of chemicals. If you buy the tank used it's actually a pretty reasonable system. Finding the 4x5 reels used will be harder.

Awhile back I started learning Ra-4 printing. I picked up a 2800 tank [a 2500 type with a different light trap]. Now all I do is rotate the one print lid with my various film tanks. Turning them all into print tanks. I've done the same thing with some cheap used 1500 tanks. I just float the tanks in a water bath and hand rotate them.

If anybody is looking for Jobo items they might want to keep an eye on the Jobo-usa scratch and dent web page. I started my Jobo tank collection with a tank that had water damage. Damage amounted to a wet manual and box. The tank needed washing but when I had done that it was perfect. Considering I paid about 1/3 the new retail price washing the dust off the tank was fine with me. No tanks on the page now.

One of the things Gordon Hutchings mentions in his book, The Darkroom Cookbook is developer exhaustion. Depending on the activity of the developer you may need a lot more developer than the tank can give.

Becareful not to save a few pennies on developer only to ruin a good shot.

A 2521 tank holds 1 2509n reel, said reel is adjustable for 6 4x5's, 9x12's, or 6x9's. If using the Jobo processor use 270ml of chemicals minimun; if processing hand held inversion (the only thing Jobo warns against because of chemical quanity to fill the tank) use 1500ml of chemicals.
Someone just starting out and not reading instructions might not put enough developer but that is about it.