Am I correct in assuming that you cannot use this flash with a full sync shutter, and use the button to trip the solenoid? This does not seem to be a problems with the Graflite. I only use the SOL for solenoid tripping only and have mounted a strobe on the top. I guess this is a Heiland, but the only identification is SOL on the bottom.Anyway I only gave 50 cents for it and it serves the purpose for Strobe use. Russ

Sidney O. Lindall ran a nice camera shop in Denver, Colorado and tinkered in the basement of his shop after hours.
He developed a dependable shutter tripper and battery case. Not being in NYC the only company that could manufacture it was an outfit that made mining equipment.
But the mining industry was collapsing in Denver and they were looking to branch out.

For a while Heiland Research Corp licensed the patented from S.O.L, but after awhile bought it outright, which is why early Heilands had the SOL logo, which shouldn't be confused with KING SOL which was the predicessor of Paramount cords.

Now after all of that hot air. ...... I don't see a reason you shouldn't be able to use the SOL to trip the shutter and have the shutter trip the flash.

Thanks Les, I searched Graflex.org and came up with nothing so I thought I would try here. However no matter what outlet I use, as soon as I hit the button the bulb will go off, while if I use the Graflite you can adjust it not to fire bulb but rather wait for the sync from the shutter. It would seem that this unit was designed as a synronizer only and built before sync shutters. I like solenoid shutter release as it seems to be a slick way to fire the shutter. And the handle is nice to hold on to if you can stand the extra weight. Sorry for the long post, this is no biggy. Russ

Your right, this was designed in th e Pre-sync'd shutter days, but you did say you had a strobe attached to the camera. So if you don't put a bulb in the SOL and hook the strobe to the shutter it should work fine.

Les

It does, Thanks. Russ

Further on history of Heiland and King Sol...
Now.....you of course know about Paramount Cords.....this is still concerning King Sol and Heiland.....I am just slow to get to the point! HA!.

One time at the Paramount site I clicked on http://www.paramountcords.com/
and then on: Profile - company history and GUESS WHAT?! Read about it being founded by the man who was King Sol !
I wrote Gary at Paramount Cords and had this reply which further filled me in on things......not as much as I would have expected from a grandson of the founder of King Sol...... and not much about Heiland, which was a disappointment. However .....here is my message to him and his reply....

>>>>"Just idly reading your company history and was astonished to learn it all started from the King Sol company!
Would you mind expanding on this a bit? I know from the appearance of KIng Sol and Heiland flash guns that there must be a connection. I surmize that maybe someone from King Sol left the company and started up a competing brand and called their company Heiland. Am I correct, or what is the connection.....I am sure there must be one.
Love to hear about this if you have a moment."<<<<

>>>>>"Len: Thanks for your interest in the King Sol history. It's nice to know somebody reads that page. Why your interest in King Sol?

Yes, there was a connection there between Heiland and King Sol. I have some King Sol stuff with both Heiland and King Sol logos on them. I also have some sync cord molds with the Highland logo on them. (Len comments: WOW wish I had the money to order up Gross of each and sell them on eBay!) I don't know the whole history, but I do know that Herman Fish (my Grandfather) did have a partner. I think his name was Robbins or Roberts......I heard he wasn't a good guy.

After King Sol, Herman Fish went out on his own and concentrated on plastics. When plastics was in its infancy, he had the idea to make plastic utensils. Everyone discouraged him from making it so he didn't. They laughed and said: " why would anyone want to buy plastic forks and spoons and knoves". To bad he didn't patent the idea. After King Sol, he opened a factory in Hawthorne NY which did injection molding of boxes, jars and lids.

In the later years of his life he was sort of semi-retired, and was into everything from photography to aeronautics. When I was about 7 years old (1958), I watched him make parts for experimental rockets out of fibreglass type materials (along with sync cords) in his home in Putnam, NY. He also made strobe lights for parachuters etc. He died in his sleep in 1982 with a toothpick still in his mouth.

I have a nice sync retrofit for a twin lens camera made by King Sol, also a King Sol flashgun with 3 reflectors. I collect the King Sol stuff.

Best regards Gary, Paramount Cords.

Interesting history, huh?

It looks like there's more research to be done. I've three flashes. One a SOL--logo of a sun, nothing more. I've got a King Sol --logo of a sun with a face and a crown. And then I've got a Heiland which is a clone of a SOL.

Somewhere in my midst, I've got a pamphlet from Honeywell (who bought out Heiland Research and changed it to Heiland Division) that describes their version of the history of the syncronized flash, and it doesn't talk about people in New York.

Now somewhere down the road King Sol and SOL/Heiland had to blend. Maybe Heiland bought King Sol too.

Les: Would you look at this model Heiland Solenoid http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2937384281&category=4702
There is no identification as to what camera it fits. Maybe since you mentioned you had some Heiland info - (I looked in mine but no luck) you may be able to identify it. I queried the seller who said there are no words on the bracket to indicate what camera it fits. Only number on solenoid is HR001564 but this does not appear in any Heiland catalog I have. Mention was made this came from a collection which included a Hasselblad. Maybe it was made for it, but in my HR catlogs there is no mention of a solenoid for a Hassy.
Person did say in an email to me that she looked up the patent number which showed it registered to a Jacobson in 1939. I mention this as you said on another post about a "UFO" flashgun, that it may be a Jacobson.
I remembered this when told the HR solenoid was patented by a 'Jacobson'. So, seems Jacobson may have been connected with Heiland.

It is curious that an HR would have a Jacobson Patent number. I've heard the Irving Jacobson went to work for Gaflex of California (Western Division) and devised the Graflex flash and solenoid.
Maybe Jake and HR cut a deal. I can't find anything with that model number or part number but I did find this:
RETINA
Sorry for the large size but anything smaller got very difficult to see.

RE: Sol/Heiland/Kingsol. In the late 30s there was a middlemanagement person that worked at Heilland Research designing mining equipment His name was Sidney O. Lindall. At home he tinkered with flash synchronization. At one point he went to the head of HR and said, Look I think I've got something here, but I can't build it by myself.
At that moment, the Head of HR was looking over his books. The company was in a tailspin. Mining in Colorado was declining. He looked at Sidney and smiled.

HR went into the flash business.

This was in the mid-late 30s.

The first models were called SOL after Sidney's initials.

The KING SOL came out after the war and was a direct and unlicensed copy of the SOL flash. But by this time HR was now the HR division of Honeywell and Sidney wasn't getting anywhere with the Honeywell brass about going after King Sol. He finally left HR and opened a camera store. After electronic flash was on the upswing, Honeywell did get King Sol to cease and desist.

I think that why the details of Herman Fish and the King Sol company are so sketchy with the gg grandson. there's a lot of skeletons in that closet and Herman didn't talk much about it.


_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2003-07-04 11:33 ]</font>

Thought this would be the best spot because its helped answer some of my questions.
Last week while cleaning up some of my mess I found a small suitcase with Graflex gear. One of the items is a battery tube made by Heiland Research Corp. of Denver Colo. USA.
It is very similar to my later Heiland battery tube with same (3) household outlets and one dual small female outlet, although, the Research tube outlets aren't labeled. The base of the chrome Research tube doesn't have a female tripod outlet and is also a 1/2" shorter than my later Heiland tube. The extra 1/2" must be for the tripod hole on the later Heiland. My 5" and 7" HR Reflectors look like they will work with the earlier Research tube. My Research tube came with two strange clamps on it's tube body? Hope this helps this discussion.
Harry

On my later Heiland the two left and right outlets are marked Tripper Or Extension and the rear household outlet is marked Remote. I guess my Research tube is wired the same way, although, I haven't tested it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2003-07-04 13:04 ]</font>

Thanks Les. This solenoid for a Retina sure looks like the one on ebay. I emailed the seller who now may just change the description of it to say what camera it is for.
It was great that you found an Installation sheet for this Heiland model MR 35. I attached the Instructions to my message to the seller.
Also, thanks for the further history on Heiland/SOL/King Sol....keep digging! Fascinating.

_________________


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lensman on 2003-07-04 13:02 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lensman on 2003-07-04 13:04 ]</font>

TO LES: The seller of the Heiland 'Mystery solenoid' on ebay relisted the item with the information which you provided me, and which I passed on to her, that it appears to be for the Kodak Retina II. YOU deserve most of the credit not me!
See her comments in the re-described listing.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2938684870&category=4702&rd=1