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Film Diagnosis?
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:38 am    Post subject: Film Diagnosis? Reply with quote

Hi All,

Let me start this off with I did something dumb, I have a theory of what I did wrong it but would like confirmation.

I've been shooting my 2x3 and 4x5 graflex cameras with primarily tmax400 120 roll film in the 6x9 format. A while back I purchased a 3 roll patterson tank and a B's developing insert and a 25 sheet box of Arista EDU 100 film.

I shot 6 holders worth of 4x5 a while back at my sister's wedding but haven't processed them yet, I was a bit concerned about making sure I developed it right before I messed with those shots.

Tonight I loaded up 3 holders and did some test shots around the house and all the negatives turned out the same.

Here's a shot of the negative
https://photos.app.goo.gl/98Qq1bqsjDXSGs8Y8
quick inverted in photoshop - no other modifications
https://photos.app.goo.gl/CbcSmCTbUXTHXWBL9

all have the same pattern 1/2 or so of the film is gone and there is a reddish pink band in the middle where it starts to go bad.

I developed in sprint standard 1+9 developer and followed the massive dev chart for developing times. I did flush the tank 3x with 68 degree water before starting to develop and the water came out fairly darkly colored, I wasn't sure if it had a halation layer so I flushed.

my theory is a while back I loaded up a few film holders to shoot at my sister's wedding and my hands were getting pretty clammy in the dark bag and I had the unexposed film in the bag but not in the box and took my hands out and opened the dark bag and based upon my theory ruined the film.

Since 1/2 the frame came out and looks decent, I hope the shots from the wedding are still good as when I loaded those holders I had the film in the holders prior to opening the dark bag.

Is my theory of ruining the film reasonable? or does it look more like a light leak?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the colored streaks on the negative? If not its dirty scanner glass or other optical chain.

The film appears to have been fogged. Keep unexposed/unprocessed film in total darkness be it the box the film comes in or loaded film holders and only handle in total darkness. A dark bag works. In a room sit for 5 minutes with the lights off then hold your hand 6 inches in front of your face, if you cannot see your hand then its dark enough to handle film.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the pink is on the negative, the images of the negatives are from just using a cell phone. Since the quality is so poor I dind't want to waste time on them.

In last night's photo shoot, in trying to rush to get a pic of my twin 3 year old girls sitting on my wife's lap, I messed up one sheet where I left the shutter open and pulled the dark slide to try and get a pic while the kids where in one place. I pulled the negative from the holder and let it completely expose. That shot I didn't try to develop and as an experiment I put it in the fixer without going into the developer first and the sheet turned a fairly bright pink.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hLFiACoh9wp6xN429

It is kind of interesting that there is some color in the process, it shocked me as I put it in the fixer while the other negatives were in the rinse process, thought I bought some type of color film and all the negatives were junk.

I'm going to order up some more film and keep trying as well as develop the shots from the wedding which hopefully turn out good.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How fresh is your fixer?
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've made up a new batch of fixer every time I've bought a new quart of developer concentrate, I started on a new bottle not that long ago so I think the fixer has had 3 rolls of 120 and 2 rolls of 35mm run through it before last night.

It took the fixer a little over 30 seconds in an open container to go from opaque to the pink

Under normal developing, I keep my film in the fixer for 5 min and agitate for the 1st min and 10 seconds each additional min.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds good. T grain films (T Max) have a pinkish cast when fixed, it may clear with additional fixing.
Antihalation dye is green and comes of in the pre wash or developer.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting that you mention that the anti-halation layer would come out in the pre-wash or developer, I did wash the film 3x and the water was dark green each time and even after the developer the stop bath was somewhat colored by the green coloring.

I didn't go to the point of the water running clear in the pre-wash, another lesson learned for next time.

I put the negatives on the light table and checked out the parts which weren't fogged then took a cell phone pic of one of the better ones then played with it a bit in photoshop. I am quite happy with the resolution and tone so hopefully the next batch of film goes much better
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3SBxuGovJVm3wQp57

I got my order in at B&H for another 25 pack of film as well as a connector cable to hook up the shutter to my remote flash transmitter.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prewash for 3 to 5 minutes then agitate before dumping.
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JESimmons



Joined: 03 Dec 2012
Posts: 25
Location: St. Simons Island, GA

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me the Tmax films have always been difficult to clear completely in prewash. I usually soak for about five minutes in a large tank with lots of water. I use one shot developers and when pouring them out, could see a green tint. After fixing the negatives have a pink cast. So, I don’t think any of that is your problem.

When I lived in Florida, I had to use a changing bag. The general heat plus the additional heat inside the bag caused my hands to sweat, and upon opening the bag, I could feel additional humidity inside. I never got negatives like yours.

I agree with 45PPS - it looks more like fog to me.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I developed 2 rolls of 120 yesterday and they came out fine, I doubt it is the chemicals or the actual development process.

I got a box of new 4x5 film in over the weekend, I will take some test shots and develop this week.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's start with I'm not the smartest guy around......... I figured out some of my film woes and figured out some more ways to mess up.
Tonight I developed 6 more sheets and they all came out about the same = not good (initially).

For starters I was rushing when I took the pics, I had went out over lunch to a spot which was 20 min from my house, I had a 1pm meeting which I couldn't miss and the pic location was a 5min walk from where I could park = recipe for not having a lot of time to take a proper pic. Lets add in I forgot my loupe, forgot the dark cloth, it was snowing and quite cold.

I setup my shot, used my digital to figure out exposure and setup for f16 at 1/50th of a second on ISO 100 film. I had a 90mm on the camera, I focused the best I could on the base of the waterfall and was planning on letting stopping down give me the depth of field to get the mill building. Snow was fairly bright and I couldn’t see the whole ground glass .

Being the smart guy I sometimes think I am, I took 2 shots and bracketed with the 2nd shot at 1/25th and took both shots. For my 2nd holder I went down the banking and tried to setup another shot and promptly realized I didn't stop the lens down before taking the first 2 shots. I went back up the banking put my tripod in the same spots in the snow and proceeded to take 2 shots using the correct aperture. Looking at the time I realized I was already going to miss some of my meeting so I rushed home.

After my meeting my fur-ball cat decided he would let me take a couple of pics and sat on the radiator cover and gave me a rather pissed off look. Since I messed up 2/4 shots in the bright light of the snow earlier, I decided I would over expose the pics of the cat and then pull my development time.

The specs from Massive Dev chart say 8:30min so my plan was to cut it down to 6min. I got the sink water to 68 degrees and washed the heck out of the film, it took almost 10 min of washing to get the water to run clear after dumping it from the tank. Once it ran clear, I developed.

When I was finished, here's an pic of the negative just after the wash, nice pink streak down the center of all the negatives. Let's see if we can count how many times I messed up with this one
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xzsJjTMQXkuVQMAJ6



The film wasn’t fogged this time but it had the same pink streak as the first time, great I figured out one problem… I fogged a box of film..

Second issue, I’ve got the same pink streak on not fogged film… In looking down the Bournet developing reel I noticed a matching pink streak
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hTTgdAgN11XBWJuA8

so I took the negative and put them back in the fixer for a few min and the pink streak went away. Thinking my fixer wasn't cutting the mustard I mixed up a new batch, it turned out cloudy I tried some of the other sheets and the “new” fixed didn’t seem to do any better than the old. I think I am going to get a new bottle of fixer over the weekend to eliminate that the fixer is exhausted.

Question - beyond my poor photography skills, does the Bournet reel have a design flaw in that it doesn’t allow the chemicals to fully develop and remove that pink streak from the back side of the film?
Or is this a function of me pulling the development cycle? I’m thinking it is the way the development reel works because the same pink streak was on the 1st set of film I ran through it and I developed that in the following the standard developing times.

As for the other way I messed up - love the front tray showing up in the image, I should have dropped the front plate, In rushing I didn’t even notice it was in the shot 😊

The film is still drying, I will post up some quick scans once it drys.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That developing reel does not have any way for chemicals to get to the back side of the film. It should have 1mm to 2mm ridges that touch the rebate area of the negative to hold it away from the back of the slot. Other holders hold the film by the edges in slots that are .5mm deep. JOBO, Mod 54.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I scanned one of the images - I've got some more problems to address.....

I am getting some type of light leak on the bottom of the image ( I cut off the worst of it in a crop but it is still there in the image. There is also a definitive line down the center where the pink line was so even though the extra fixer bath removes the pink line, there are still issues which it doesn't address.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EYe7iMaP3Y1fMX6S6


this image was shot 135mm 4.7 xenar wide open 1/10th second on iso100 film, and yes my HP G4050 scanner is horrible.

I ordered a jobo tank and 4x5 reel and will be looking for something to roll it on.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4042
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I ordered a jobo tank and 4x5 reel and will be looking for something to roll it on.

I lay the reel on the open tank in a Photoflex Changing Room
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/41880-REG/Photoflex_AC_CROO1_Film_Changing_Room_25.html

This puts 3 slots up and I turn the reel so that the slot openings face away from me. I start with the slot furthest from me, turn so the emulsion faces inward, then push it down so that the last 3/8 to 1/2 inch is sticking out. I load the next two slots in sequence the same way then check the gap between sheets. When the gap between sheets is equal i push them down until they lock into place. I then turn the reel 180° and repeat the procedure. Its easy to get two sheets into one slot side.

I use JOBO's manual roller base, adjustable for all tank sizes (mine is, purchased in the late 1990's). https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25524-REG/Jobo_J1509_Roller_Base_for_Combo.html An equal or near equal number of rotations in each direction is necessary to prevent streaking. The instructions say to use 270ml for 4x5 but fewer to no problems occur with 300ml. Many others have noted this also.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2021 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was looking at that roller base, it looks like a bunch of folks make their own variant with some wheels on a board, I will look into the options.

I saw some posts about having to change the rotation but nothing that said it had to be completely even, thank you for that advice.

Here's one of the other images - I shot it profile and cropped of the end of the front face plate. I am getting a leak on one side, I am assuming it is the "top" based upon the other photo. Since I've not seen a light leak in any of my roll film shots, and it crosses multiple film holders it is an issue with how I am loading the film holder into the camera.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GqaVqS312ZaXVtZJ8

I think I am going to "expose" 2 sheets and leave the lens closed, pull the dark slide and shine a flashlight all around the outside of the camera near the film holder then develop it and see what happens.
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