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Minature or Pacemaker - 120 back help

 
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ocmiker



Joined: 15 Feb 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Minature or Pacemaker - 120 back help Reply with quote

First off, what a great site. After digging around here last night, I believe what I've found (at a local antique shop of all places) is either a 2x3 Pacemaker or Miniature. Rangefinder on the side, Zeiss Jena Tessar 105 4.5, with a Graflex back and all in good seemingly functional condition. However, with the help of this site and subsequent searching on eBay, I fear finding a 120 back, either the 22 or 23 will prove difficult given the Graflex back. My interest in this camera would be to use 120 roll film as a rather cool option to my daily driver a Hassy. That said, ideally, the 23 or 6x9 is my first choice so as to have a very different format option. My question is this, are there other sites to source such a back ? Is there an easy-ish conversion I can do to a Graflok back ? Digging through this forum I found reference to spring back conversions, but not much if anything on a Graflex to Graflok mod. Sorry for the ramblings, any insight or any direction to where to look for options is appreciated. Thanks !
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Sirius Glass



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 162
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you have a Hasselblad which is 2 1/4"x 2 1/4" or 6x6. you would find that camera close to the same size negative. Plus you will have problems finding sheet film or a roll film back.

I recommend that you look for a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic. That will give you a bigger negative and finding sheet film will not be a problem. Also it is easier to find a roll film back it you chose to go that way.

I too have Hasselblads, a 4"x5" Pacemaker Speed Graphic and a 4"x5" Graflex Model D.
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rollfilm holders for the Graflok (or Universal) back are relatively common. There's a 23 size on eBay right now:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/Graflex-Graphic-23-Roll-Film-Back-for-120-Film-Knob-8-Exposure/142690925272?hash=item21390abad8:g:6MoAAOSwfpBahUNw
These can be adapted for a Graflex back like this: Grind down the inside flange of the Graflok holder and cut a groove roughly 1mm deep and 1mm where the flange used to be. This groove has to continue on the top and bottom of the holder to fit the flange on the right side of the Graflex body.
I was lucky to have a machinist friend do this for me, quick and easy for him to get an exact fit.
You must have a Pacemaker like mine! I really like the 6x9 format.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miniature Speed looks the same as an Anniversary Speed in shape, controls, function.
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Anniversary.pdf
The Pacemaker Crown and Speed have different controls
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1sPJkp-MdghM0RuVXpkZnRnbVk/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-z_aVSqDIQHoeAT4u8QFoag
Graflex cameras were laid out with an engineers rule, all measurements are in inches, tenths, hundredths, thousands.
Roll film holders were made for Graflex backs but are hard to come by.
Read: https://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6356
Film holder measurements same for 2 sided film holder, plate holder, bag magazine, grafmatic, and roll film holder in 2x3 format
Inside edge of groove to outside edge of holder 4.343 inches.
Groove width .050 inches.
Grove depth .035 inches.
AND:https://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6391

I haven't done one but an contemplating it.

Graflex to Graflok on a 2x3 should be easy but the screw hole pattern may be different. You either strip the Graflok off another camera or buy one someone else stripped.
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Last edited by 45PSS on Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, 45PSS. It's obvious why I had to depend on a machinist!
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ocmiker



Joined: 15 Feb 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thank you all so much, quite helpful. Didn't think of the grinding idea but makes sense and seems easy. Yes, I spent quite some time last night trolling eBay looking for the correct back and agree it seems a difficult task. I would love to know if it is in fact a Miniature (seems so by the kind links provided), but the pics I have can't be posted apparently (not on a public server - on my PC). 4x5 may be in my future, but the 2x3 seems so much easier to tote around. Now mind you, I lugged an RB67 around for a few years. 6x9 may not be quite as different to 6x6 as going 4x5 sheet, but roll film is just so convenient and what I shoot with on my other cameras.

Thanks again !!!

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shutterfinger



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Photos have to be uploaded to an image hosting site then embedded or linked to on this site.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2119
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. Because it has an f/4.5 Tessar, odds are that the OP’s new (to him) camera is a Miniature Speed Graphic. Quick check. If a Mini, the bed stops (to prepare the camera for use, pull the front standard out until it hits them) are fixed. If a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic, the bed stops fold down to allow the front standard to be positioned in front of them.

Unserious Glass, nominal 6x6 can indeed be cropped to get a 2:3 aspect ratio. The cropped negative will be approximately 39 mm x 56 mm. Nominal 2x3 gives the same aspect ratio with a 56 x 82 (+/-) negative. 50% longer on both dimensions. Some find the added size useful.

OP, odds are that y’r new camera has a Graphic (spring) back, not a Graflex back. The Graflex back has a removable focusing panel and a single slider at the top of the gate. The Graphic back’s focusing panel is permanently attached, is held to the camera by a spring above the gate and another below the gate. Sheet film holders are inserted between focusing panel and the back of the camera.

If y’r camera has a spring back, OP, you can use an insertion type roll holder. I use Adapt-A-Roll 620 roll holders. These will feed from a 120 spool, must take up on a 620 spool. I put exposed film shot with an AAR 620 back on a 120 spool before sending it to the lab. This is what a changing bag is for.

About posting images. OP, if you have a Google Drive or MS Onedrive, you can put an image on it, share it, get a link and post the link here.
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ocmiker



Joined: 15 Feb 2018
Posts: 3
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, odds are that y’r new camera has a Graphic (spring) back, not a Graflex back. The Graflex back has a removable focusing panel and a single slider at the top of the gate. The Graphic back’s focusing panel is permanently attached, is held to the camera by a spring above the gate and another below the gate. Sheet film holders are inserted between focusing panel and the back of the camera.

Thanks for the input, it is a Graflex back (at least based on everything I've seen and read), the focusing panel is removable and there is a single slider on top. This same vendor has a 4x5 with a spring back (Graphic). After reading through this forum more last night, I feel my best path will be patience to find a 2x3 Speed Graphic (really would like a focal plane shutter) with a Graflok back for ease of sourcing roll film holders. Sadly, I have no machinist friends, though this does seem "doable" with basic hand tools and a Dremel I suppose. Very cool community here, and one that I look forward to joining one day.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know where on the planet you are as you did not put it in your profile BUT craigs list in my area has a listing for a Century Graphic for $65 and a Miniature Speed with both for $80. No lens or lens boards, the Mini has a Kalart RF and there are a few double sided film holders.
I have a resurrected from the dry rot display shelf Miniature Speed Graphic with 101mm Raptar, Graphic back, and Kalart rangefinder. I made a pair of retainer washers to secure a roll film holder for it. I'll be willing to let it go and maybe a roll film holder with it.
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