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120 roll film back for Graflex Series D?
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:21 pm    Post subject: 120 roll film back for Graflex Series D? Reply with quote

120 roll film back for Graflex Series D?

Do any of you have one *******? I seem to can't find one on ebay, cuz mine has a graflex back, and they're rare? People said I need one that has no ridges on the back. Thanks
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Billy Canuck



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 165
Location: Calgary AB Canada

PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, the Series D came in two sizes, 3x4 and 4x5. Both require the Graflex rollfilm backs. None of the Graphic backs will fit. This webpage shows clearly what is needed:
https://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Graflex%20Holders/index.html
Graflex rollfilm holders are hard to find. I found mine for a 2x3 and a 3x4 Graflex by persistent searching on eBay, and I mean really persistent.
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea

Anyways, can I just buy a 23 one and sand off the ridges? Mines a 4x5
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2011
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Y'know, you've asked this question of LFPF and had cold water poured on you. There's a message there.

But its your money and your time. Just do what you want and if it turns out to be a mistake take your lumps.
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, whats the message?
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William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't just buy a holder for a regular 4x5 back and "sand the ridge off". There several differences between Graflex and regular (i.e. Graphic) holders:
- the Graflex holders are a bit wider
- there needs to be a slot cut where the light seal ("ridge") is on a conventional holder, since the Graflex has a protruding strip as a light seal on the camera back
- Graflex holders have a different face to film plane dimension - they are about 1/32" deeper. This is the real show-stopper if you want sharp negatives.

These differences apply to both sheet film and roll film holders.

I recently acquired a few "homemade" Graflex film holders in a batch that I had bought. Someone had taken regular 4 x 5 Graphic wood and metal film holders, ground off the light seal ridge and cut a slot, and nailed two narrow strips to the side to accommodate the slide locks on the Graflex back. They did a reasonably good job, but overlooked the difference in the film plane depth. I wonder if they were ever puzzled by the fact that they always got slightly unsharp photos.
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea that was what I was just thinking. Any way to adapt one? Or even find one?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2011
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jusxusfanatic wrote:
Yea, whats the message?


Taping a 2x3 roll holder to the back of a 4x5 Graflex is a bad idea. It won't get the desired results.

Got it now?
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. Can't find the 4x5 ones anywhere
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2011
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jusxusfanatic wrote:
Yea that was what I was just thinking. Any way to adapt one? Or even find one?


There's no easy cheap adaptation.

I told you once that I've seen an account of an adaptation. The ridges were milled down, not sanded. And a groove to mate with the edge of the Graflex back was milled in. The groove is necessary.

4x5 roll holders for Graflex backs turn up on eBay from time to time. Just keep looking.

Alternatively, send your 4x5 Graflex to a competent shop and have a Graflok back fitted and the ground glass shimmed to be in register.

Please stop asking people to tell you what you want to hear.

If you want to try to adapt a 2x3 roll holder to a 4x5 Graflex, stop asking us to tell you that it can be done. Try to do it.

If we were all mistaken, tell us. But stop talking and start doing.
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jusxusfanatic



Joined: 04 Jan 2017
Posts: 9
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. What are the 4x5 ones called? Literally just the same as 2x3 ones but 4x5?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2011
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jusxusfanatic wrote:
True. What are the 4x5 ones called? Literally just the same as 2x3 ones but 4x5?


Small bird, you're in the nest squawking, mouth wide open, hoping that someone will fill it with partially digested bugs and worms.

its time for you to leave the nest and forage for yourself.
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loujon



Joined: 12 Feb 2014
Posts: 13
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
jusxusfanatic wrote:
True. What are the 4x5 ones called? Literally just the same as 2x3 ones but 4x5?


Small bird, you're in the nest squawking, mouth wide open, hoping that someone will fill it with partially digested bugs and worms.

its time for you to leave the nest and forage for yourself.


AMEN brother Dan AMEN!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3639
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Take a piece of 1/4 inch thick Baltic Birch plywood and cut it to fit into the Graflex back like a film holder. Next cut the film plane opening for the roll film holder and the grove for the light trap ridge. Bend 2 washers or similar to clamp the edges of the roll film holder to the adapter. Paint/stain it flat black on the camera side, finish as you like on the roll film holder side.
Adjust the ground glass in the view opening to match the film plane of the roll film holder.
The adapter may get thin at the light trap grove due to its closeness to the edge of the Graflex back.


Quote:
- Graflex holders have a different face to film plane dimension - they are about 1/32" deeper. This is the real show-stopper if you want sharp negatives.

Graflex film holders use the standardized depth to film surface distance as other film holders of the same size. Depth to film surface distance for 2x3,3x4, and 4x5 is .197 .007 inch.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2011
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, have you ever done that?

I had the thought, decided not to make the suggestion because of the difficulty I saw in making the film plane perpendicular to the lens' axis and in register with the ground glass. If doing this isn't particularly difficult, that's good news.
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