Graflex.org Forum Index Graflex.org
Get help with your Graflex questions here
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Kodak Ektar coatings vs Wollensak Optar coatings
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Lenses Help
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David, you shouldn't condemn Wollensak out of hand. Their tessar type Raptars (also sold as Raptars) may well be mediocre.

Their plasmat type Pro Raptar taking and enlarging lenses are, however, very good. Their 203/7.5 clone of the 203/7.7 Ektar is widely reported to be as good as the Ektar. And their f/6.8 wide angle taking lenses are, by all accounts, no worse that the competition, Schneider's Angulon.

If you compared y'r 127 Ektar with a 101 Raptar on 4x5, of course the Ektar should have one. The 101 is a normal lens for 2x3, won't cover 4x5. Unfair test. And if you compared them on 2x3 the 127 should have won. This because it will give better image quality in 2x3's corners than the 101 can. Unfair test.

I suffer a little from the "seeking silver bullets" malady of wanting good rather than mediocre lenses. But the truth is that mediocre lenses usually deliver better image quality than my lousy technique can use. And I know at first hand that a strong image that isn't perfectly sharp everywhere is much preferable to a weak image that's sharp everywhere.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3669
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David, I haven't a clue about Wollensak serial numbers. I yield to the other members on this site and other sites that are more knowledgeable on lens than I.

Wollensak was purchased by 3M who did not make public any of the Wollensak Optical data. I have some 135 Optars that will preform as well as Ektars and Xenars.

When I was working at a hardware store in Foster City I was talking to a customer one day and he told me he worked for General Precision Equipment Company. He said that they realized Graflex was dying and sold the company to Singer and released the repair manuals to the general public to make maintaining of the product easier as they were well made and would be around for decades.

The 127 Ektar is a normal lens for 3 1/4 x 4 1/4. It will barely cover 4x5 with no movements and soft corners. It is a highly corrected lens for color photography.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 198
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It is a highly corrected lens for color photography.

Hmmm.. could you explain your tearm "highly corrected lens" please... ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3669
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/kodak_4.html
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Folks, let's be clear on one thing. Lens designers have always tried to eliminate aberrations. They design lenses that are achromatic, anastigmatic, and so on. This means that nearly from the beginning of photography most lenses suffered from minimal chromatic aberration, minimal distortion, minimal coma, minimal astigmatism, ...

Even very old lenses are suitable for color photography. If they weren't, they wouldn't produce sharp b/w images. As, for example, my pre-WWI 130/6.3 and 150/6.3 Carl Zeiss Jena Tessars, which are quite competitive with my newest lenses. That is, the oldies produce images that can't be told from ones made with my newer lenses.

Charles, you've been taken in by marketing fluff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3669
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Charles, you've been taken in by marketing fluff.

In 1977 I took a photography course at the local community college taught by a commercial photographer in the area who was quite successful.

He commented about the 127 Kodak Anastigmat being the lens used for the ad at Grand Central Station to introduce Kodachrome. He said the lens was one of the sharpest on the market.
He convinced me he knew what he was talking about when we got 22 inches of snow during semester break. The housing development where he lived had a new silver aluminum mail box and a new black anodized mail box on new post about 2 feet apart with unbroken snow on and around each.
When classes resumed he showed us the photo he made of the mail boxes on TriX that had no noticeable grain, there was texture detail in the snow, the snow was white, and the mail boxes had as much detail as they would if you were standing there looking at them in midday sun with a clear sky and no glare.

The other references I've read online in the past are either gone or at the bottom of the search results in the current search engine show the most looked at/current postings including ebay listings and I don't feel like spending a day or two searching for that information.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1556
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:

Even very old lenses are suitable for color photography. If they weren't, they wouldn't produce sharp b/w images.... That is, the oldies produce images that can't be told from ones made with my newer lenses.


"Amen" to that! One has only to look at the images of a late 19th-century master like William Rau, and the work he did for the Pennsylvania and Lehigh Valley Railroads, to see just what lovely large large [sic] format contact prints could be pulled from those lenses---not to mention the emulsions of the day.

Further, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Rau and also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_H._Rau#/media/File:Low_grade_Crossing_at_Whitford,_Getty_07147701.jpg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3669
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The community college I attended is North Arkansas Community College, Harrison, Ark.

The photography instructor was Ernie Bickerton.
His obituary http://bolivarmonews.com/obituaries/ernie-bickerton/article_2db27c21-a90f-5f60-ac7e-793e4b5a7fed.html
He attended Southwest Photo Arts School in Dallas, Tx, operated a photo business in Tulsa, Ok., and was president of Professional Photographers of Oklahoma in 1958 to mention a few of his accomplishments.

Henry, thanks for sharing.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IanG



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 69
Location: United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A comment about Kodak Ektar coatings, they changed significantly. I had an early 203mm f7.7 Ektar in an Epsilon shutter (now sold) it was in excellent condition but the coating was nowhere near as good as a later one in a Prontor SVS shutter. These are both Kodak Ltd (UK mmade) M370 Ektars so standard Compur/Copla #0 sized shutters.

It's the same with a US 101mm Ektar I have in an Supermatic and a UK made 101mm in an Epsilon, also a 127mm Ektar in a Supermatic - this one has cleaning marks affecting the coating but it's not scratched. The coating on my other EK (US made) 203mm f7.7 Ektar in a Graphic Compur #1 has the more modern coatings like the UK one in a Prontor, it must be a very late version as few are seen in Compur #1 shutters

UK Ektars have no serial number so you can't put a date to them. This step change in coatings which are much more efective in terms of contrast is mirrored with Schneider lenses I think it also improves colour balance as well.

Ian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
78ltd



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 62
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 pm    Post subject: wollensak Reply with quote

dstoenner wrote:
Dan,

The serial number on the Graflex Optar 162 is in the 300,000's which according to some other posts puts it in the 43 and there is a 43 date scratched onto the back of the shutter. When you look at the glass and shine a light from the side, you do not see the characteristic blue secondary reflection of the single magnesium coating that was used on lens of that era.

I knew that the 101 either Raptar or Ektar is a 2x3 lens only. And so far I have only used the 127 Ektar on 2X3. And yes I knew the 101's could only be a 2x3 format. I forgot I do have a 90 F6.8 Wide Angle Optar for the 4x5. I like taking pictures of old architecture so that one might be useful.

David


I too have a 162mm Optar in a non sync shutter that has a serial number starting in the 200,000 range that is also uncoated. Optar as the Graflex house brand did start before coating was in widespread use. I also have many other Optars and a 101mm Velostigmat that have the same type of engraved date on the back of the shutter. I've always assumed (yup, it's speculation) that was the date the lens/shutter assembly was mated together. But I also have some optar/raptar lenses that have a ink stamped code on the back of the shutter. Being a car aficionado I've applied the same rational to those numbers that you do to decode car manufacturers date/manufacturing codes. Such as the months being coded by letter (A for January, B for February, etc., etc except the letter "I" is not used because it could be confused with the number "1" so "M" is used for December). But it is true that is just speculation on my part.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Lenses Help All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group