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Rangefinder?
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject: Rangefinder? Reply with quote

Will an Rangefinder from a baby speed.. and its assembly, arm, ect fit a 2x3 Century Graphic?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1994
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, are you sure?

I ask because Peter's "baby speed" is ambiguous. If I recall correctly, the Miniature Speed Graphic and 2x3 Pacemaker Graphics took somewhat different Kalarts.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the arm is different. if he wants accurate information he should use the correct terms, not jargon. a similar discussion was addressed on apug a few days ago including the use of such jargon.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:
A little while ago, got a 'Baby Speed', (Feb) with spring back, inexpensively, which basically, although not stated, was sold as a parts camera.
It has a good bellows, and the lens, which is operational, but leaved much to be desired, for one reason or another, which I could not pin point. (90 mm Graphex Optar W.A.) Perhaps both of you remember the exchange on Apug, Testing Baby Speed.

But it allowed me to be introduced to a 2x3 speed, and love the size of the dang thing.. so small.
So started investigating lenses.. and because I'm now in Texas doing some volunteer work, wanted to bring a film camera, but with no darkroom to develop, would have to shoot roll film and send it out to get developed.
So that required a Graflok Back, in which I could use my two RB67 backs, but as I understand it, the baby speed will not normally take such a back.

So shopping around, found a 2x3 Century Graphic on KEH, with a Graflok Back, but without a rangefinder or lens. So I thought I might use the one I had, and put on it, and so this discussion was started.

But what happen instead, in looking around came across and bid on a Crown Graphic 2x3, with an Ektar 101mm lens, which is what I was shopping for.
It will arrive next Thursday, and supposedly has a roll film back with it, but the seller never went in much detail on it at, or the camera at all, but in a reply to a question about the lens, stated it was clean and with no fungus. So will see... looking forward to it.. most likely, a bit bigger an heavier. So what.

Now while I'm at it, want to thank both of you for all your responses in the past, even though at times.. oh Dan.. you can get ah.. .. Forgetaboutit.
Take care..
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1994
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, thanks for the additional explanation. Which "Baby Speed" do you have? Miniature Speed Graphic or 2x3 Pacemaker Speed Graphic?

About y'r incoming new treasure. Good luck with it.

Your comment "supposedly has a roll film back with it" made me cringe a little. If the back is with it, all's probably well. If the back is on it, it probably doesn't have a focusing panel.

Even it it has a rangefinder the focusing panel is necessary. All too often RFs are out of adjustment. And the Kalarts supplied on 2x3 Graphics are can be set up for only one lens at a time. Change lens, recalibrate RF.

Let us know what you receive and whether my concerns are misplaced. I hope they are.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1555
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I've seen far too many 2x3s on the auction site being offered with rollfilm back attached and no visible focussing hood/screen, leaving me to assume that the seller is being just a bit cagey on the matter (IOW, no screen!). Then, as a corollary to the previous, up will pop a 2x3 folding focussing hood/screen elsewhere on the site. I really deplore this (apparently) misleading kind of offering. As always, let the buyer beware and ask first!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any, repeat ANY Kalart or Hugo Meyer side rangefinder will work on any Graphic Press camera BUT you must have the correct arm for that model/size of camera. If the camera never had a side rangefinder then you will need to make a template for the mount holes and add the coupling to the rail.
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Last edited by 45PSS on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan .. believe its a miniature speed .. it has the 'squeeze' lock type, to pull out the bellows on the rails.

Henry your correct, and they often have the rest of the story, being sold separately.

A picture of the camera, from the rear, showed the hood open, and the digital camera reflected off the ground glass, that took the picture, so think were safe there.

This one has the side mounted rangefinder and top viewer.
From the pictures, it looked very little used, will see shortly..
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/miniature-speed-graphic.html
Looks like a Anniversary Speed but smaller hence the term Baby.
Pacemaker Crown, Speed are the same body style and parts will easily interchange. The Crown body is shallower due to the lack of the focal plane shutter. The Century 2x3 is a Crown body in Bakelite with the graflok back made into the body.
The baby term is oft times applied to any 2x3 Graphic camera and is the source for the confusion.
http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update:
Got the camera and its "23" Graflex roll back, plus some extras... roll of Iford FP3 120film expired May 1971 ... and a roll of Pan X expired 12/1988... also a Durakad yellow y-2k-2 and series 6 wrattan k-2 filter.. A 5 to 6 step up ring, a Series 6 Pola Screen, which seems to be locked and will not turn, and a color Deltron 490.. with screw mount... none of this stuff will fit on the Ektar 101 mm, but some of it will work with my Nikon 35mm which is at home.

The bellows is tight, checked the speeds on the lens and there veryyyy good.. It does do a funny thing.. twice once at 400 and at 200, I fire the trigger, and it will not allow to be reset... leave it alone, and come back a short time later and it' s ok.. Probably lack of use.

When I first tested it, the shutter was a little slow.. so I warmed it up and triggered it about fifty times, and was much better. This morning tested the shutter again.. and still very good.

It looks very little used, and the big plus... the rangefinder is adjusted to the lens... yahooo... don't have to do that.

The Ektar 101 has Blub, but no "T" .. is there anyway to lock this open rather then using a cable release locked down for time exposures, or just for focusing on the ground glass. Don't really care for the plastic cable release socket. Are these that durable?

The RB67 back fits on very nicely...

Could someone give me a date of manufacture Serial # 710072..

Very nice camera, like it much more than the 'squeeze' baby speed.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1555
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peter k wrote:

Could someone give me a date of manufacture Serial # 710072..


1950.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
23" Graflex roll back,

Does it have a Grove on the camera side near darkslide slot or does it have two ribs a little over an inch apart? Roll Film Holder is the correct term for this piece.
Quote:
It does do a funny thing.. twice once at 400 and at 200, I fire the trigger, and it will not allow to be reset... leave it alone, and come back a short time later and it' s ok.. Probably lack of use.

When I first tested it, the shutter was a little slow.. so I warmed it up and triggered it about fifty times, and was much better. This morning tested the shutter again.. and still very good.
Needs a CLA. If allowed to sit for a few days it will be slow again.
Quote:
The Ektar 101 has Blub, but no "T" ..

What shutter is it in?
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_11.html
or
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_12.html
should tell you what you want to know.

Quote:
Could someone give me a date of manufacture

Its less than a hundred into an order listed on Dec. 6 1950 with several previous orders for large quantities a month or two prior and the next order in late 1951 so it most likely rolled off the assembly line in early 1951.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 196
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has a single, what I would call a raised ridge the length of the dark slide and it is labeled 'Roll Holder'

Hmmm .. you may well be right.. that it needs a CLA.. I was trying to shoot it this afternoon and it was doing weird things.. yet this morning tested without a problem..

There is some misunderstanding, its a Kodak Ektar 101 mm ..

And thank you both, that it dates from the early 50's
The leather handle broke today so will have to put on the other one, from the baby speed. Nice to have parts...
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3591
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
There is some misunderstanding, its a Kodak Ektar 101 mm ..
There is no misunderstanding on this end
That 101 Ektar can be mounted in a version of the Supermatic with either Kodak or Graphic in front of the Supermatic and if it has flash sync it will be called Flash Supermatic; a #1 Grahex; or a Compur shutter.

What does it say on the trim ring (where the speeds are printed) of the shutter?
This instruction manual http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_5.html only mentions the Graphex (101 Optar)or Flash Supermatic (101 Ektar). Both have T settings. The lens may not origonal to the camera, check its serial number here http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/lenses.html#EktarLenses .

I doubt the handle from the Miniature Speed will work on the 2x3 Pacemaker Speed. Get a piece of leather from a leather shop or use a leather belt and cut a new one with a sharp knife using the broken one as a template. There should be a leather shop or two or a saddle shop that can make it for you near by. Some contact cements work for bonding leather and stay flexible. A leather punch is around $15 but the holes for the buckle can be made with a drill bit.
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