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Pacemaker speed graphic focal plane shutter dimensions.
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:09 pm    Post subject: Pacemaker speed graphic focal plane shutter dimensions. Reply with quote

I have recently decided to resurrect the focal plane shutter on my 1947 Pacemaker Speed Graphic. I have an old Speed Graphic shutter curtain belonging to an Anniversary and I laid it out and took measurements. It's close to the remnants of the Pacemaker focal plane shutter and I think that I could make it work. The problem is that the Pacemaker has a flash sync with little metal bits imbedded in the right side of the curtain to trigger the flash . Does anybody have any actual dimensions of where these flash triggers are placed in relation to the curtain slits or any diagrams or measurements for the curtain itself? This is a do it myself project. Does anybody actually make the metal bits for these curtain anymore?[/url]
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://speedgraphic.shutterfly.com

Not sure if this photo is going to show up, but is is the dimensions for an
Anniversary Speed Graphic focal plane shutter.

The shutter will not work in a Pacemaker because it is too thick. The spools from the Anniversary are much larger than the spools from the Pacemaker. Winding the shutter onto the Pacemaker spools still makes the shutters too thick to fit in the camera. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3816
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Graflex Reflex cameras need a shutter curtain far more frequently than Speed Graphics. This post in the Reflex Help section is a good jumping off point. http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=5624
I have measurements for some Reflex cameras but none for the Pacemaker.
The metal strips are .010 thick. They are only useful for Focal Plane Flash Bulbs as standard M type flash bulbs, F type flash bulbs, and electronic flash will not burn long enough to illuminate the full frame except for Open Flash exposures.

I have some rubberized fabric I bought a short while back that a new curtain can be made from. Send me a pm for pricing info if interested. The original material is .008 inch thick and most bodies have enough clearance in the roller cavities to allow for swelling to .020-.025 inch thickness.

I have seen curtains from stripped bodies on ebay within the last year.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3816
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did a search and found an old post of mine stating that the Anniversary Speed curtain has 5 aperture openings and the Pacemaker Speed has 4 and the parts numbers are different. The curtain and roller assembly is 30350-1; the curtain only is 30409-1. The numbers are meaningless unless you run across NOS.
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
I just did a search and found an old post of mine stating that the Anniversary Speed curtain has 5 aperture openings and the Pacemaker Speed has 4 and the parts numbers are different. The curtain and roller assembly is 30350-1; the curtain only is 30409-1. The numbers are meaningless unless you run across NOS.


Thanks, that explains a lot. The anniversary Speed curtain is too long to fit into a Pacemaker because it has an extra slit. The anniversary has 24 speeds (4 slits and 6 tension settings, not including open) and the pacemaker has 6 speeds (3 slits and 2 tension settings, not including open). Now, all I need is the actual dimensions of the Pacemaker curtain and I can take it from there. Anybody out there have any measurements?
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Jim C.



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kentop wrote:
Now, all I need is the actual dimensions of the Pacemaker curtain and I can take it from there. Anybody out there have any measurements?


I have a stinks to high heaven of cologne FP shutter for a Pacemaker that
I've been meaning to air out, pulled these measurements off it, hope this helps -

Pacemaker Graphic Focal Plane shutter cloth dimensions

Length 44" measured from roller to roller glue join line, add 3" - 4" to wrap around rollers
Width 5.625" ( 5.75 measured from a working Pacemaker )

The width of the aperture openings are all 4.75", what follows is the length

First aperture - 5.75"

Second aperture - 1.5"

Third aperture - .4062 ( 13/32" )

Fourth aperture - .125 ( 1/8" )


Flash sync tabs measured from top edge of aperture stay to top edge of tabs
First Aperture - 2.3125 ( 2 5/16" )
Second Aperture - 1.6875 ( 1 11/16 )
Third Aperture - none
Fourth Aperture - 1.375 ( 1 3/8 )

Flash sync tabs
plated brass or copper .007 thick
body = .41 x .20
bend over tabs = .0845 x .060

Oddly there are only 3 flash sync tabs, I compared it to fully working Pacemaker and
that also has 3 tabs.
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim C. wrote:
kentop wrote:
Now, all I need is the actual dimensions of the Pacemaker curtain and I can take it from there. Anybody out there have any measurements?


I have a stinks to high heaven of cologne FP shutter for a Pacemaker that
I've been meaning to air out, pulled these measurements off it, hope this helps -

Pacemaker Graphic Focal Plane shutter cloth dimensions



Thank you so much for your measurements. I was going to spend most of today trying to reverse engineer the shutter by loading the cloth onto the top spool and slowly pulling it out and marking where the slits should be when the winder stops. You have saved me an immense amount of time. I will mark the shutter cloth with your dimensions and give them a try. I will also put up another template for future use. Does the distance between the slits change at all? That is, is the distance between the smallest slit and the next one different than the distance between the next two? Thanks to you and 45PSS. I'm sure I can resurrect this focal plane shutter.
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting thing I found out today is that even though the Anniversary shutter cloth width is thinner than the Pacemaker width by an eighth, the little metal bits lining the slits are exactly the same size. I had a remnant of the Pacemaker shutter with a metal edge on it and it was exactly the same size as the anniversary shutter I bought online which is 1/8th inch thinner.

I was looking for a source for .007 metal foil that I could bend into new slit liners and there doesn't seem to be a source. I can buy .005 and .010 in copper, but I haven't found anything that is .007 in copper or bronze.

What I am going to do next is make a "Franken-shutter" from the complete Anniversary shutter I have. I am going to hack out the 2nd shutter slit on the Anniversary cloth and reduce it to only three slits like the Pacemaker has. Then, I am going to get rid of the extra cloth at the beginning and end of the Anniversary Shutter that makes it too thick to spool onto the Pacemaker. If that does not work out, I have lost nothing. I will simply salvage the metal slit liners for the new shutter cloth I have. Stay tuned, folks.
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Jim C.



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you're looking for is shim stock, foil is it too soft for the aperture stays.
Shims are available in brass, copper and steel.

My bad for not including the aperture spacing, you'll have to fill in the
amount of extra cloth to center the first aperture and wrap around the top roller.
Ditto for the bottom.

Measurements are from the inside lower edge of the Open aperture to
the inside edge of the top of the next aperture -

First Aperture - 7.125"
Second Aperture - 6.8125"
Third Aperture - 8.25"
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim C. wrote:
What you're looking for is shim stock


Thanks Jim. It's amazing what you can do when you know the right words. You can't just type "little metal bits to make the slits on a cloth shutter curtain stiff" into google and get any kind of hit. Knowing just the words "shim stock" is more than half the battle.

The Anniversary shutter I have has the same odd spacing between apertures. Wide, shorter, and longer. Go figure.
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Jim C.



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

McMaster sells shim stock that's flat, most of the time it comes on
rolls since it's primarily used in clamping situations where flatness
isn't an big issue.

Your next hurdle is being able to cut the shim stock without it curling
and folding it to make the stays !
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3816
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim,
The position of the O aperture is critical for correct shutter alignment. The distance from the end of curtain to the top of the O opening is important.

Shim stock is also available in small quantities on ebay.
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Jim C.



Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 89

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
Jim,
The position of the O aperture is critical for correct shutter alignment. The distance from the end of curtain to the top of the O opening is important.

Shim stock is also available in small quantities on ebay.


Agreed on the O aperture position, but my specimen is still on the rollers
and I wasn't going to peel it off for an exact measurement.
I did recommend 3 - 4" extra, and positioning the O aperture correctly
before trimming off excess works well. Kentop should go extra than I recommended
to be safe.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3816
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The distance from the roller to the top edge of the O should be sufficient.
The O aperture on ALL Graflex/Graphic shutter curtains is longer than the film plane opening allowing for positioning so that the following apertures are 1/4 inch above the film plane opening prior to releasing the curtain for exposure and 1/4 inch lower than the film opening once the aperture is closed. On the Pre Anniversary Speed I just finished and Anniversary Speeds there is about 3/16 turn of the roller after close from open and the curtain has 1 turn without overlapping bonded to the roller, on Graflex SLR's there is 6 to 10 turns of cloth after close from O with the curtain glued to itself about 1/4 turn after closed from open to pevent further run down. I have seen Speed curtains have as much as 1/4 roller turn and as little as 1/8 roller turn after closed after O.
1 tooth on the top roller equals 1/4 inch of curtain travel of the O aperture.

Some tips on installing a curtain:
Once installed pack the curtain before determining the positioning is correct. To pack the curtain set the tension to its highest setting and wind to curtain to its smallest aperture and then run down to closed after open 5 to 10 times. The aperture position of O will shift 1/8 to 3/16 inch closer to the film plane opening during packing. I use latex contact cement to bond the curtain to the rollers. The curtain can be removed from the roller and reattached easily for up to 3 days, more difficult after longer times and cleans off the roller and curtain fairly easily. I would draw the apertures on uncut material, attach it, pack the shutter then check the proposed aperture positions for correctness for the full run of the curtain.

There are guide rollers on each edge of the film plane opening and the aperture stay should be above the top one when wound to that aperture and below the bottom one at the end of run on release. On the rollers may result in film fogging.
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kentop



Joined: 08 Dec 2015
Posts: 14
Location: Tucson Arizona

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And so it begins.

I took the rubberized cloth 45PSS sent me and laid it out on a five foot long butcher block. I then took a 48" drywall t-square and made one side straight. I then measured 5 11/16 (the width of the original remnant that was stuck to the top spool), and wound up with a shutter cloth 91" long! According to the dimensions posted here, I should only need about 51" for the pacemaker.
The length of the Anniversary curtain I have is 72" long. So, I have plenty of extra to play with. I also posted the Pacemaker shutter dimensions artwork, here's some pictures:

https://speedgraphic.shutterfly.com/pictures#:albumId=10

By the way, should the rubberized side face towards the front of the camera or towards the back?
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