Graflex.org

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Somewhere in my travels I've come across a Graphic, not Graflex plate holder labeled as a Type II. In may be an F&S Dept. holder but more likely a Folmer-Graflex holder.

Does anybody have one in their collection they could photograph? or let me borrow?
_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

pv17vv · Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:07 pm Post subject:

Got one !
Let me know how you want it photographed and I'll gladly do it.
Georges

Graflex™ : Uniting People The World Over © & ®

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

First we have to figure out what the differences between a Type I and Type II.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the Type I was the original Graphic plate holder (shown below)

are there any differences besides the color/finish of the holder (I'm assuming yours is black)? How does the holder hold the plate?

_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Quote: "How does the holder hold the plate?"
There are one or two little leaf springs in the bottom of the holder. You insert the plate into the bottom groove and push it down, toward the bottom. The top should then drop into the holder. You may need to press in slightly on the plate and it should snap up into it's groove. Insert slide. The two springs you see in the photo hold the plate out in the proper register. A Type I holder may not have those springs. Many early types did not.
_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Well this holder has the first Folmer Patent date, so I contend this is a Type I, but it came with a camera made by F&S Div of Ekc, so it's a late Type I, and I suspect New York Graphic Plate holders might not have a leaf spring in the center.

So if a Type II Plate holder does a Push-down-drop-in like some cameras hold the lensboard, does a Type II have an arch at the end of holder like this one?
_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Les, I would have to assume they would all have the arch at the bottom. That's the finger access to push down on the springs in the end so the plate will drop out at the top. The difference between types I and II may be the design of the light trap ridge. It was changed to the double ridge design at some point, but I don't know when.
_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Here's how I think it worked out.
type I is the one here, the brass tabs in the arch move fingers in at the corner to hold the glass plate in.

Type II (Plate holder) As you describe it. I found a reference to a type II and followed the patent number on it. The patent is for the felt trap to keep light leaking where the dark slide goes. Nothing about the other end, so this particular film holder may be a later type II. The patent is from 1934 or '36.

I think Type III is the same as a Type II but as a film holder. Or it could be the short film holder with the metal light trap.

Type 4 is the longer "double light trap" as you call it. but made of wood. These came out in '43 or '44

Type 5 same as a Type 4 but with a metal band at the top.

Type 6 Riteway. Though it was never called a Type 6.
_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison

P. Lynn Miller · Joined: 21 Jun 2009 Posts: 31 Location: Sydney, Australia

The real question is... does anyone here still shoot 4x5 glass plates? I have seen some and a glass plate image is amazing!
_________________
P. Lynn Miller
Sydney, Australia

http://plynnmiller.com

pv17vv · Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:49 am Post subject:

To create a new plate holder, take an ordinary sheetfilm holder,

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/1883/plate21c.jpg

Add 2,15 mm thickness,

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7279/plate24.jpg

Rivet a flat spring in the middle of the septum, each side,

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5305/plate22.jpg

Cut a crescent at the bottom to help removing the plate,

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8353/plate23.jpg

Stamp 4X5 GRAPHIC PLATE TYPE II on one side,

And you have it.

Weight : 200 grams

Handles of the darkslides in steel, painted silver/black, five dots, no number

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Great bit of research, Les. The type 5 holder also had slides of a different material, to make them infrared safe. Plates may still be available from the Russian suppliers.
_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

In one of those moments where I regret not footnoting my entire life, I read that back in the 20s Kodak (and thus Graflex) went from three dots on the holder to 5 dots to signify IR impenetrability, but alas no idea where I read it. If true, the IR safeness goes back to even naturally finished film holders.

Ironically the standard 1444 darkslide was NOT light tight (or fog tight or cosmically tight) for some early color films.
_________________
"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison