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Super Graphic Electric Shutter release help

 
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Super Graphic Electric Shutter release help Reply with quote

I recently got me a 4x5 Super Graphic and I am loving it. I thought medium format was cool, but 4x5 is WOW!

I am intrigued as to how the Electric Shutter release works.
I have good batteries and I get output from the sockets on the side when I press the little red button.
However, for the life of me I cannot see how the juice is supposed to get to the front standard to trip the solenoid.

I read in a few places there are wires in the bellows?
I can't find any in my bellows, I wonder if they have been replaced with regular bellows?
I do see wires that go over to the sockets on the side and a black tube thing that runs down the right side inside the case, but it dead ends at the right hand rail.
Am I supposed to have some wires somewhere?

I was also hoping to use electronic flash with my Super.
If the Electric Shutter release does not fire the shutter is there no point in using the sockets on the side to fire the flash. Would I have to use the bi-posts on the shutter itself?

Any help or insight is much appreciated.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have good batteries and I get output from the sockets on the side when I press the little red button.

Do you hear a click when you press the little red button?
If yes, then the solenoid ig getting juice and working.
Quote:
I do see wires that go over to the sockets on the side and a black tube thing that runs down the right side inside the case, but it dead ends at the right hand rail.

The black tube that runs down left side of the body is the rangefinder tube. It should have a thin flat piece of metal that slides into a guide slot on the rails. There should be a RF Cam in the cam slot of the tube that matches the focal length of the lens.
You need to go to http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info.html and download the Super Graphic User Manual posted there.
When you remove the lens board you should see metal spring type contacts at the top corners of the front standard with corresponding contact on the back of the lens board. Looking at the front standard from the front of the camera, the contact on the right (camera left) is the common contact and the contact on the left (camera right) is the flash hot sync contact.

For flash sync to work via the internal wiring then you must have a factory type lens board and lens.

The "wires" inside the bellows are aluminum foil type strips that run between the outer and iner layers of the bellows. You won't be able to feel them. The camera electronics, bellows wiring, and flash sync socket are innerconnected via a terminal strip on the camera right rear and is covered by a black cover.

I posted the wiring diagram for the Super series graphics in a seperate post to make searching for it easier.
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:49 pm    Post subject: Super Graphic Electric Shutter release help Reply with quote

45PSS, thanks for the extensive reply.

I do hear a click when I press the little red button, it sounds more like the micro swithc clicking than the solenoid.

I also do have the correct lens board with the contacts on the back that line up with the 2 spring contacts you metioned.

I don't seem to get any jice from these contacts when I press the button. I wonder if the wires in mty bellows have broken; I read that happens sometimes.

I'll poke around a bit more with my meter.[/code]
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I do hear a click when I press the little red button, it sounds more like the micro swithc clicking than the solenoid.

If the solenoid is working the shutter should trip via the red button push, if not, slide the front standard out to the end of the rails and run the rails out to where you can access the lower camera left of the front stnadard. You will see 2 screw post with nuts on them, 2-56 or smaller. The top most post is + and the lower -. My Super Speed reads .45v with the solenoid energized. I discovered that battery + is common and batttery - is the power or switched. My batteries read 23.8v each but 41.3v connected.
The side socket should read:
Front most on camera = 2.7k ohm from left most battery terminal or camera battery supply with reguard to common.
Center terminal = Camera common - low ohms from right most battery terminal OR right most front standard lens board contact when looking at the front standard.
Rear terminal = low ohms from the left most lens board contact on the front standard (flash +).

To access the terminal strip:

    1. Remove focus panel.
    2. Rotate the back 45 degrees.
    3. Looking at the edge of the opening, locate 6 bellows retainer clips. 2 top, 2 bottom, one each side.
    4. Using a small flat blade screwdriver or simular push the inner most edge of the clip toward the opening of the back and pull off.
    5. With all retainer clips removed push the bellows foward just enough to acess the nut on the bottom of the terminal strip cover. Wiring damage can result if the bellows are pushed too far or hard.
    6. Hold terminal strip nut and unscrew lower rear screw on Right lower handle/flash bracket.
    7. Lift out on terminal strip bottom and slide down and out of the camera.
    8 . Remove terminal strip wires, if needed, by using a small flat screw driver placed at the front edge of the terminal and pushing the terminal off the strip. As an alternative grip the rear of the terminal with a small pair of needle nose plier and pull straight out on the terminal. DO NOT pull on the wires.

Reassembly:

    1. position wires from the battery housing/rangefinder and bellows to the top rear of the camera body.
    2. Slide top lip of terminal cover under the front edge of the of the rangefinder/batttery housing and lower the terminal cover into place. Verify that battery housing and bellows wiring are not being pinched by the terminal cover and are going thru the angled slot at the top rear of the cover.
    3. Install the Right lower handle/flash bracket screw and tighten into the terminal strip nut.
    4. Pull the bellows into the back opening until the bellows sit flush with the back.
    5. Install the bellows clips with the dimple to the outside of the camera ensuring that the dimple fits into the recess in the back frame. Rotate the back as needed to gain better access to the clip positions.
    6. Reinstall the focus panel.

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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, a step by step set of instructions.
Once again, 45PSS, I appreciate your detailed reply.

I did find the little screw posts behind the front standard.
I don't get any voltage on them when I press the little red button, I do get power at the side sockets though. So, I think the wires in the bellows are to blame. Can the bellows and or wires be repaced? if so, does anyone still fix these things?

I am a little afraid of taking things apart as I would be quite happy to use the camera with manual shutter release, but kick my self if I buggered it up. The old eyes don't work as well as they did and tinkering with small parts is not like it used to be.

I will look at it some more next weekend when I will have plenty of time to squint at it.

thanks again.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I will look at it some more next weekend when I will have plenty of time to squint at it.

That's what swing arm lamps with the big magnifing glass are for, squint elimination.

Remove the batteries and press the red button and hold for 2 or 3 seconds to drain the capicators. Measure across the solenoid concacts at the rear of the front standard, should be 31~32 ohms. Now measure from the right battery terminal to each of the solenoid contacts, top = 34 ohms, bottom 0~5 ohms. Left battery terminal to either solenoid terminal should read the 2.7 k ohm resistor that is in series with the battery when the red button is pressed, infinity when it is released. Corrison can cause the failure that you are experencing. I have seen one bellows with the iner lining cut over a section of the foil so I can only assume it is possible. Finding a new or good used bellows if yours has bad wiring is going to be a difficult task.
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the assistance.

I checked as you said and get the following with the batteries removed...
Across the solenoid contacts = 31.8
Right battery terminal to top solenoid contact = 32
Right battery terminal to bottom solenoid contact 0.6

Left battery terminal to either solenoid contact I get no reading at all, just 0L. on the ohm meter which I guess means no continuity. Pressing the little red button gave me the same no reading.

Not sure what this means.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume that OL on your meter is equivelent of infinity on others or more commonally called Open Circuit.

I would remove the nuts from the solenoid posts and clean the metal strips at the posts, the posts, and the nuts then reassemble and retry. Use a scotchbright pad or piece crocus cloth and polish until shinny.

If that does not do the trick then access the terminal strip and check the left battery terminal to the Yellow bellows wire, should read 2,700 ohms (2.7k) with the red switch pushed. Early versions of the camera used all black wiring with a small color dot near the connection. The yellow wire runs down the center of the bellows.

If the flash sync wiring is good then a flash will fire via the side connector when the shutter is manually triped.

OK, I pulled my parts body out and found that with the bellows removed from the body, fully extended, turned upside down, under bright light, the foil strips outline can just be seen. Taking jumper wires and connecting one lead of my ohm meter to the open wire in my bellows and the other lead to a straight pin I found that I lost connunity 5 pleats into the bellows and from the front standard contact I lost connunity 4 pleats in.
Next I took a new straight edge razor blade and just cut thru the inner lining next to the foil strip the length of the bellows then across the width of the foil strip. Out came 16 pieces of brass foil with 2 more pieces of brass foil still connected to the bellows wiring and front standard terminal.

The bellows construction is, from outside to in:

    Vinal outer covering
    cardboard stiffners
    electrical foil consisting of thin plastic simular to celeophane, brass foil .001 inches thick, second layer of plastic
    inner cloth lining

I have ordered some .001 brass shim stock from small parts inc. I will solder a new piece of shim stock in place following origional layout and glue the lining back in place.
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate you have spent so much of your valuable time helping me, but I really appreciate all the help.

I tried cleaning the contacts, but that did not help.
Actually the were nice and clean to begin with, The whole camera is in great shape barely a mark or scratch on it. Even the battery contacts were quite clean, I cleaned them any way.

I fear the wires in the bellows are to blame.
However, I think I will hold off on taking it apart any further. I did start to remove the bellows retaing clips but stopped as I am afraid I will end with a bunch of parts.

I'll be happy to use it manually with my cable release to fire the shutter.
I am eager to get some good use out of it. I've taken a few shots just in the local park and was amazed at the negatives; and I thought my medium format negs were good.

I love reading through this Graflex forum and found lots of good information on it. I guess I can call myself a Large Format shooter now, not quite 8x10 but big enough for now.

Once again, thanks for all the great help.
I think I'll look out for a parts Super to tinker with before I dissect my lovely working one too much.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the shim stock arrived today, soooooooooooo

Top left: Bellows clamped to a work board with the iner lining cut and folded back and secured with tape. (Front standard disassembled, front clamp=pony 3202, rear clamp=pony 3201.)
Top right: Piece of shim stock cut and soldered into place. (Tin both the new piece of shim stock ends and the ends of the existing brass strip before installing the new piece and soldering it into place).
Lower left: Bellows lining glued back into place and cut seam coated with black fabric paint.
Lower right: Bellows refolded and ready for installation.

Wiring test good with and ohm meter!
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
Posts: 14
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what an amazing job.
Great pictures of the fix too.

I'll have to pluck up the courage one day to do the same with my bellows.

I appreciate all the advice.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a possibality that the switch is corroded which requires the RF to be removed.
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mwdake



Joined: 24 May 2008
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the switch is OK as I get juice at the sockets on the side when I press the little red button.
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eyedear



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 1
Location: Penang, Malaysia

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi there, i know that the electric switch requires at least 42 volts to work. if i put 4 A23 size batteries in a series i would get 48 volts would this be too much. or would it still be safe for the camera to work.

i am doing this as its very difficult to get the eveready 412 battery in malaysia.

thanks if aybody could help with this
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3750
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



This is the circuit diagram of the Super/Super Speed Graphic with wire colors and diode number added. I believe the reason Graflex chose to use 45V power supply was battery longevity.
The weakest link is the capacitors and as long as you do not exceeder 50V to the capacitors other power sources should work. The current capacity of the power source is more important than the voltage provided it is less than 50 Volts.

Full battery voltage is applied to the solenoid when the switch is closed (solenoid disconnected); solenoid current is 15.8 mA when energized; solenoid voltage drop when energized is .5V.
Measurements taken with a digital VOM and fresh Eveready 412 batteries that read 23.7V each with no load.
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