Graflex.org Forum Index Graflex.org
Get help with your Graflex questions here
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Pacemaker Speed Graphic 4X5 with Graphics Spring Back

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Accessories Help
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 3:22 am    Post subject: Pacemaker Speed Graphic 4X5 with Graphics Spring Back Reply with quote

Sorry-
Pacemaker Speed Graphics 4X5 with Spring Back !!!!!

Hello,
This is my first foray into large format film photography. Purchased as noted above, as a lesser expensive way to start! Having noted the prices of processing the 4X5, I am thinking about trying to use a 120 Roll Film Adapter. Quickly becoming confused... I have the Graphics Spring Back. Are the roll adapters still available for that style back? Alternately, can this back be replaced by a Graflok back that takes the more readily roll adapters?
I would need to be able to focus using the view screen. Still have so much to learn on using a tilt/rise and such along with depth of field. Have only been able to extract so much from YT. Hoping to practice with the 120 film and move to home film processing.
The rangefinder does not appear to function. So I need to use the viewing screen. I can barely see it without a lot of ambient light and it is faded and dirty. Possibly the lens might also contribute to the issue. I am seeing information about Fresnel lens screens added to brighten up the image, any advice, experiences?
Try as I might I can not find brackets to put a strap back on it. Again any ideas??
Thanks for any assistance
Regards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2131
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Early Pacemaker Graphics came with buyer's choise of Graflex, as in Graflex SLR, or Graphic, also known is spring, back. Most buyers chose spring backs. If I recall correctly, the Graflok back, which accepts clip-on roll holders and slip-in film (sheet and roll) holders, was introduced as an option in 1949.

There are several slip-in type roll holders that will fit in Graphic backs. I use 2x3 size Adapt-A-Roll 620 roll holders with my 2x3 Graphics. At the moment there are 25 4x5 size AAR 620s on eBay. AAR 620s will feed film on a 120 spool but must take up on a 620 spool.

If you add a fresnel, it must go behind the ground glass. This means between GG and you.

A better solution is to find a used 4x5 Graflok back WITH FOCUSING PANEL. A Graflok without a focusing panel is useless. These turn up occasionally on eBay. Also look for parts cameras with Graflok and focusing panel and (with luck) strap mounting brackets.

Soap and water will clean a ground glass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
Early Pacemaker Graphics came with buyer's choise of Graflex, as in Graflex SLR, or Graphic, also known is spring, back. Most buyers chose spring backs. If I recall correctly, the Graflok back, which accepts clip-on roll holders and slip-in film (sheet and roll) holders, was introduced as an option in 1949.

There are several slip-in type roll holders that will fit in Graphic backs. I use 2x3 size Adapt-A-Roll 620 roll holders with my 2x3 Graphics. At the moment there are 25 4x5 size AAR 620s on eBay. AAR 620s will feed film on a 120 spool but must take up on a 620 spool.

If you add a fresnel, it must go behind the ground glass. This means between GG and you.

A better solution is to find a used 4x5 Graflok back WITH FOCUSING PANEL. A Graflok without a focusing panel is useless. These turn up occasionally on eBay. Also look for parts cameras with Graflok and focusing panel and (with luck) strap mounting brackets.

Soap and water will clean a ground glass


Thank you for the your advice and time. A 620 back for the Graphics would work. Thanks for clarifying the placement of the fresnel, I had it figured wrong! Is it difficult to convert from the Graphics to the Graflok. Haven't found info on the replacement. Yes that would be a better choice I agree.
As the camera is still within it's return period, I was advised not to go messing about with disassembly. Still deciding if I would like another camera with the Graflok back and maybe without the body shutter??/
Regards
BTW could only find two of the Adaptaroll for the Graphics back and one wan sold as is?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2131
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4x5 Graphic and Graflok backs are direct replacements for each other.

If I were you I'd sent y'r present camera back and buy the one you want, i.e., with Graflok and focusing panel. Unless the parts camera that will make yours whole is on offer now -- I haven't looked -- at an attractive price, this will be faster and less expensive than making y'r prsent camera right.

FWIW, my first Graphic was a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed that had a Graphic back. My bad. I bought it at a camera show, no right of return. But I lucked into a Miniature Speed Graphic that had been retrofitted with a 2x3 Pacemaker Graflok back -- the retrofit back for the Mini will fit a 2x3 Pacemaker, just has a flash terminal at the upper left --. After I swapped the backs I was able to sell the Mini and came out more-or-less whole. I'm not sure you can do the same now, the world has changed.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
4x5 Graphic and Graflok backs are direct replacements for each other.

If I were you I'd sent y'r present camera back and buy the one you want, i.e., with Graflok and focusing panel. Unless the parts camera that will make yours whole is on offer now -- I haven't looked -- at an attractive price, this will be faster and less expensive than making y'r prsent camera right.

FWIW, my first Graphic was a 2x3 Pacemaker Speed that had a Graphic back. My bad. I bought it at a camera show, no right of return. But I lucked into a Miniature Speed Graphic that had been retrofitted with a 2x3 Pacemaker Graflok back -- the retrofit back for the Mini will fit a 2x3 Pacemaker, just has a flash terminal at the upper left --. After I swapped the backs I was able to sell the Mini and came out more-or-less whole. I'm not sure you can do the same now, the world has changed.

Going to look at the back removal as a point of interest. Is the Kalart Rangefinder difficult to remove and disguise the mount? It is not extremely helpful and in my way??

I have a bird in the hand syndrome { ! I checked the seller and they had a Graphics Crown, that might work but with an apparent lens deficiency. Plus I put some time in cleaning this one up as well as possible. So probably will keep this one, plus the price was right for me. How do you like the 2X3's. That looks like a good compromise with some front movement and the 120/620 film cost and processing difference. I have not yet decided to do my own processing. Money for that stuff or money for a roll film back???
May I as another newbie question. With the front movement set to the installed infinity stops, should the range marker plates be correct??? I've done a few indoor distance checks and it appears off.
Oh and the world is most certainly changed and seemingly polarized??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2131
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MB45graf wrote:

Going to look at the back removal as a point of interest. Is the Kalart Rangefinder difficult to remove and disguise the mount? It is not extremely helpful and in my way??

<snip>

How do you like the 2X3's. That looks like a good compromise with some front movement and the 120/620 film cost and processing difference.

I have not yet decided to do my own processing. Money for that stuff or money for a roll film back???

May I as another newbie question. With the front movement set to the installed infinity stops, should the range marker plates be correct??? I've done a few indoor distance checks and it appears off.
Oh and the world is most certainly changed and seemingly polarized??


Hmm. I have 4 -- long story, don't ask --2x3 Graphics, all with Kalarts. I don't use the RFs and don't find them particularly obnoxious. Tastes differ. If I were you I'd leave the Kalart in place, it might increase resale value.

Obviously I like 2x3. I've never shot 4x5, so can't report on the two formats' relative advantages/disadvantages.

Well, there is 2x3 sheet film. For me 120 roll film has advantages. If you're going to use roll film, well, you'll have to get a roll holder.

If the Kalart and camera are set up properly for the lens now on it, with the front standard (that's the word, movement is incorrect) up against the bed stops the focusing scale should be correct. Lenses are switched around so with used Graphics this isn't always the case.

The first post in this https://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?138978-Where-to-look-for-information-on-LF-(mainly)-lenses discussion has a link to an annotated set of links of interest to (mainly) large format photographers. The list includes Graphic/Graflex specific links. You might want to explore them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you much Dan, if I may be so bold. I have a lot of catching up to do. This will take time...
Best
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2131
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the club.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2024 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wish me luck

Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
William Hallett



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One note about the Fresnel lens mentioned earlier: Graflex placed the Fresnel lens in front of the ground glass, not behind it. ("In front of " means towards the lens.) The service manuals tell one to place the Fresnel (Ektalite screen, in Graflex terminology) in the frame first, then the ground glass, after which the retaining clips are screwed in place. The Fresnel surface with the circular pattern is to be placed next to the ground surface of the glass. HOWEVER, the presence of the Fresnel shifts the focus plane somewhat, and Graflex compensated for this by milling out the frame so that the Fresnel/groundglass assembly lies closer to the lens than the film plane. One should therefore not add a Fresnel unless one is prepared to do this. There was some correspondence about this in this forum some years ago, but I can't find it now.
_________________
WilliamH
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 2131
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Hallett wrote:
One note about the Fresnel lens mentioned earlier: Graflex placed the Fresnel lens in front of the ground glass, not behind it. ("In front of " means towards the lens.) The service manuals tell one to place the Fresnel (Ektalite screen, in Graflex terminology) in the frame first, then the ground glass, after which the retaining clips are screwed in place. The Fresnel surface with the circular pattern is to be placed next to the ground surface of the glass. HOWEVER, the presence of the Fresnel shifts the focus plane somewhat, and Graflex compensated for this by milling out the frame so that the Fresnel/groundglass assembly lies closer to the lens than the film plane. One should therefore not add a Fresnel unless one is prepared to do this. There was some correspondence about this in this forum some years ago, but I can't find it now.


Yes, the factory supplied fresnel is placed in front of the ground glass. Aftermarket fresnels should be placed behind the ground glass.

The ground glass rests on bosses on the focusing panel's frame. When the factory supplied a Graphic with a Graflok back and an Ektalite screen, the camera's focusing panel has low bosses. Focusing panels for Graphics shipped by the factory without a fresnel have high bosses.

The OP's camera has a spring back, could not possibly have been shipped with a fresnel.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

William Hallett wrote:
One note about the Fresnel lens mentioned earlier: Graflex placed the Fresnel lens in front of the ground glass, not behind it. ("In front of " means towards the lens.) The service manuals tell one to place the Fresnel (Ektalite screen, in Graflex terminology) in the frame first, then the ground glass, after which the retaining clips are screwed in place. The Fresnel surface with the circular pattern is to be placed next to the ground surface of the glass. HOWEVER, the presence of the Fresnel shifts the focus plane somewhat, and Graflex compensated for this by milling out the frame so that the Fresnel/groundglass assembly lies closer to the lens than the film plane. One should therefore not add a Fresnel unless one is prepared to do this. There was some correspondence about this in this forum some years ago, but I can't find it now.


Hello,
It seems as if quite a lot about this camera and it's use is confusing to me!!
The fresnel lens I am looking at appear to be recent manufacture. I am not prepared to mill out the back..... Thanks for the input!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MB45graf



Joined: 12 Jun 2024
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
William Hallett wrote:
One note about the Fresnel lens mentioned earlier: Graflex placed the Fresnel lens in front of the ground glass, not behind it. ("In front of " means towards the lens.) The service manuals tell one to place the Fresnel (Ektalite screen, in Graflex terminology) in the frame first, then the ground glass, after which the retaining clips are screwed in place. The Fresnel surface with the circular pattern is to be placed next to the ground surface of the glass. HOWEVER, the presence of the Fresnel shifts the focus plane somewhat, and Graflex compensated for this by milling out the frame so that the Fresnel/groundglass assembly lies closer to the lens than the film plane. One should therefore not add a Fresnel unless one is prepared to do this. There was some correspondence about this in this forum some years ago, but I can't find it now.


Yes, the factory supplied fresnel is placed in front of the ground glass. Aftermarket fresnels should be placed behind the ground glass.

The ground glass rests on bosses on the focusing panel's frame. When the factory supplied a Graphic with a Graflok back and an Ektalite screen, the camera's focusing panel has low bosses. Focusing panels for Graphics shipped by the factory without a fresnel have high bosses.

The OP's camera has a spring back, could not possibly have been shipped with a fresnel.


Hello and thank you Sir! That is a relief for the future. I decided to keep this camera and did clean the ground glass with naptha. The difference was night and day. So I do not need the Fresnel lens immediately. Pulling off the flip out shade and using a loupe it is clear to focus! A great upgrade!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Accessories Help All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group