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Finally getting decent results out of my Graflex
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3787
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd love to learn how to get that image out of a film camera and I fully expect that it will take me quite a bit of time to learn how to do it. I really don't yet know how to get the colors out of film and am assuming by your comment that I would have needed a yellow filter to deal with the blues and a green filter to deal with the yellows and reds, then figure out how to correct the exposure.

You start by putting the electronic sensor camera in Manual Mode, meter in Centerweight and expose as if you were shooting film. I usually use Aperture Priority, Centerweight on my F4s and D300 but when shooting 4x5 or 120 I use a Gossen Ultra Spot, a 1 spot meter. I also have a GE DW58 from 1947 in excellent condition that is fun to use for snap shots. I have a few filters but do not use them as learning to meter and develop correctly gives enough tonal latitude that I can achieve the correct tonal results in either a Photoshop or traditional wet print without much effort.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3787
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I downloaded the Stream shot. In CS5.1 the histogram shows detail at 0 and 255. Cropping just the image area the blacks start at 17 but the highlights are above base line suggesting over develop over development. The gamma or mid tone adjustment a more natural looking scene when moved from 1 down to .95 to .90.
The time/temperature/agitation interval and technique affect final outcome. The film edge suggest over development also.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm amazed how much information you are able to figure out from a pic, it is another area I will need to learn.........

as for development, I am using sprint standard developer, I downloaded the massive dev chart app and plugged in the tmax 400 and developer type and it gives me, 11:30min on development, 1 min stop bath, 5 min fixer.

I've watched a few youtube videos and they say to dump the developer with 15 seconds remaining but I haven't done that since it seems to take me 10-15 seconds to get the developer in the patterson tank and get the lid sealed on tight. other than that I follow the dev chart and the agitation pretty closely.

I am using a $20 thermometer and have been getting the temp of the developer to 68 but have not paid attention to the stop bath or fixer temp.

Do any of these items stick out as the source of over development?
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st attempt at re-doing the light seals is a failure. I used a black yarn which without any glue would go into the seam and allow the door to close. I used a small amount of wood glue and let it setup then it swelled the yarn and made it stiff. I could not close the door afterwords so I've removed it.

next..........................

will try other methods.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3787
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the developer times that are printed with the film by the film manufacturer, the development time supplied with the developer, and last the Massive Development Chart if the previous do not have the combination.
Published times are starting points only that will produce a usable negative.
I use a $7 digital thermometer and it does just fine. I consider You Tube videos jister instructions. Some say to start timing at the instant you start pouring the developer in and time until the stop bath or fixer (no stop bath) is poured in. All that matters is that you are consistent.
The optimal results are obtained by having the tank/film/reel/chemicals / wash water the same temperature 1F but the fixer and final wash can be up to 5F
different without adverse affects.
The fix time depends on the type of fixer you are using, if its fresh or has been used for several batches. I reuse fixer. I filter it between uses through a coffee filter to cut down/eliminate residual silver from being redeposited onto the film.

11:30 is 690 seconds. 5% of 690 is 34.5. Cut your development time to 11 minutes and evaluate the highlights. The rule of thumb is expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. Under exposure will have no detail in the deep shadows, under development will produce gray whites while over development will produce highlights/whites with no detail.

When you scan or digitally copy the negative 0 on the histogram is pure black, 255 is pure white. The bottom line is no detail and a graph like rise above the line is detail in the negative/photo. The detail in a correctly exposed/developed negative will be between those two values. My blacks/deep shadows usually start at 15 and the highlights end at 240-250 but a bright refection or direct sun will extend to 255 but just above the base line. A highlight may end at 200 then there be a spike at 250 from a bright reflection which will be normal for some scenes such as chrome on a vechile in direct sun.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as I posted in the thread about lenses, I didn't get to shoot the 2x3 camera which had the light leaks this last weekend but I did shoot a full roll of 4x5 and developed 30 seconds less.

I've been metering with my sony set at ISO 400 and seem to be in the ballpark. I'm wondering if the shutter speeds are a bit slow and thus the slight over-exposure. I'm also somewhat struggling focusing on the ground glass. As it is taking me extended periods of time to compose,
then take the ground glass hood off, then use a loupe to focus then switch out to the film back and shoot. I also did not have extra cable releases for the 4x5 so I tripped the shutter by hand and could have introduced some shake.

Do they make a loupe which is longer and could be put inside the groundglass hood so I don't need to take that piece off

an old factory building 135mm - I think I shot it at f16 and 1/125th

negative
https://photos.app.goo.gl/nHgjhxmH331mPDPp7

converted to positive, with some tweaking
https://photos.app.goo.gl/LUntgP7ixThKR69H7

An old tow truck sitting across the street from a small farm. 65mm Schneider, I think I shot it at f22 and 1/50th. I'm going to go back to that truck at a different time of the day to get away from the shadow of the tree. I think I would also shoot this with the 135mm lens to get a tighter shot and get the skidder out of the image.

negative
https://photos.app.goo.gl/oZE1urGBEtV2eWY2A

converted to positive, with some tweaking
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZqmPU6ruoZM3zXZF7
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1580
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, neither image is in sharp focus at any distance, suggesting camera movement as well as possible film-plane-to-ground-glass disparity. As for your technique, unless you can get hold of a longer loupe (such as the discontinued Toyo 3.6x loupe) and avoid juggling the hood off and on, you could just leave the hood off altogether and use a dark cloth. You do use a dark cloth?

This is the loupe I use with my Century: https://tinyurl.com/yexoe5yr.
I use the Toyo with the dark cloth, and never have to remove the folding focussing hood from the ground glass frame.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would agree, I don't think I am getting super sharp images out of either of my cameras. I seem to do better with the 2x3 handheld if I can keep the shutter speed faster than 1/250th.

It has to be technique, Does the rule of 2x focal length for shutter speed to avoid shakes still apply to medium format?

I've been using an arca-swiss compatible plate on the bottom of the cameras and the same tripod as my sony. The tripod and ball head are fairly high quality and well over the weight capacity of the graflexes.

I know the lens on the 2x3 can deliver sharpness, here's an image I made with a test of an adapter to use my sony as a quasi digital back. I focused on the license plate of the car.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3NimjjK8HNzqo6ao8
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1580
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go back to using the tripod. Hand-held will never give you the results that you seek, IMO. And by all means use a cable release!
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry, as to a dark cloth.... yes but improvised is the best description of it, black t-shirt with the neck hole over the camera or pulling up the hood of my coat or hoodie sweatshirt over the camera.

I found this on the site, focusing hood, do folks get good results out of these?
https://graflex.org/articles/view-hood/

I was thinking I could make something out of cardboard which slipped over the factory hood and the factory hood would hold this in place while in use and when not the factory hood would protect the ground glass from damage.

How does one figure out how long the box needs to be? it seems to me that the ideal distance behind the ground glass for me to see is around 10"
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3787
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you use eyeglasses?
NO: Get a pair of readers at about 2.0 to 3.0. They work at about 12 to 14 inches. Leave the hood on and focus with the lens wide open then set shutter speed and aperture. Compose without moving the film plane distance to subject, one of the hardest things to do hand held.

The tow truck is a 1950 to 1952 Ford.

Tried that hood extender once, reading glasses are better.

If you can try the glasses at the store then take the camera and focus on something down the aisle or out the window and find which power works for you.

I used 1.5 for reading and put a 2.0 on over them for focusing, now I use 2.25 for reading and may get a pair of 3.0 to go on over them for focusing when I get back to using my Speeds.

P.S.
The negatives look good tonality wise.
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ktm_2000



Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you hit the nail on the head. @20 years working in IT is taking its toll on my in close vision and I need to get my eyes checked.

I made a simple box out of cardboard and tape and it worked ok but not good enough to get really good definition of mini-blinds on a window @20 feet away. I focused with the box, then checked with a loupe and I was close but could get significantly better definition of the details with minor adjustments to focus using the loupe.

These images were also taken only a couple of min after I took the film out of the developing tank with the negative still wet. There is a little better detail to be seen after drying but not much better.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3787
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you snap the view hood off you see two screws and a clip on each side of the gg. Remove those 4 screws and 2 clips, lift out the ground glass and fresnel if present. Wash the gg and fresnel under warm running water and dish detergent using your fingertips only and applying gentle pressure. Rub the grooved side of the fresnel in the direction of the groves only. Rinse in running water then in a mild Photoflo solution, stand on edge and allow to air dry or wipe dry with a clean lint free cloth. Handle by the edges only!

Install: fresnel-smooth side toward lens; ground glass ground side toward lens; clips and screws lightly snugging the screws on one side then the other then tighten in 1 turn increments until all 4 are tight. Over tightening one side then trying to tighten the other will crack the gg.
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