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Kodak #1 Supermatic shutter

 
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dstoenner



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 29
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject: Kodak #1 Supermatic shutter Reply with quote

Hello,

I got a 101mm F4.5 Ektar in a #1 supermatic shutter. When I got it the shutter was basically locked up. I did the normal soak in naphtha. What i found then was that when I triggered it it would sometime hang slightly open. Then if it would fire, it wouldn't close the shutter blades. Taking the cover off I found that if I took a small screw driver and wiggled the arm that connects the cocking lever to the blade rotation mechanism it would then trip off and fire but still wouldn't close.

So I completely disassembled the shutter, cleaned all of the blades, the blade rotation ring, the backside of the plate. Now the shutter will close if it fires but still hangs about 50% of the time when tripped.

So I lifted off the arm that connects the cocking lever to the shutter, open/close pin. What I found is that if I push down on that pin, I can feel a catch. if i am careful and don't put downward pressure on that pin, then it moves back and forth freely.

2 questions

1) Has anybody had a similar malady and what was found to be the cause?

2) The Kodak shutter has a double blade system on one shutter blade that forms a cover above and below the first blade placed in sequence. Where should this double shutter be placed with respect to any logical position on the shutter rotating ring?

And I took pictures as I disassembled the shutter till I got to the shutter blades and it fell apart before I could lift off the back cover. I have now learned to disconnect that arm open the blades then take it apart.

Thanks

David
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3646
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Supermatic came in many flavors and may even be branded Graphic.
Supermatic- no flash sync; Flash Supermatic- Type M and type F flash bulbs and possibly an X for electronic setting. F can be used for electronic flash; Supermatic X- electronic flash only.
Each lens that used a Supermatic shutter had some minor differences from others. Medium format camera versions were different also.

Now I deplore using straight Naphtha or Lighter fluid on any shutter. Naphtha will damage/destroy any plastic or rubber part in any shutter. Diluted 50% or more with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol is a very effective cleaner. The alcohol can be used by itself also. Its low cost.

1. get an inexpensive set of needle files http://www.homedepot.com/s/needle+files?NCNI-5 (2nd thru the 5th listing). Lightly file the bur off the pin or the moving part. Over filing will cause more trouble.
2. Clean all shutter blades leaving no finger prints. Lay the mechanism plate top side down on a work surface with the blade controller lug to your left. Place the blade controller onto the mechanism plate. The blade controller must be free of oil or grease. (hint: extra fine powdered graphite can be used on the controller to plate surface, sparingly). Ensure the blade controller moves freely and smoothly. Leave at the full open position.
2a. blade with Double Blade Bushing and stud, place the hole in the blade over the stud on the mechanism plate nearest the blade controller lug.
2b. Place the 4 blades with stud onto the mechanism plate in a ( edit) clockwise direction allowing the wide end to lay over the small end of the previous blade.
2c. Place the plain blade over the first blade with double bushings.
3. sit case over the mechanism plate in correct orientation and secure with the mount screws.
4. Check blade controller operation. It should move freely with the weight of a 1/4 inch long down feather applied and the blades should open and close completely.
5. With a round wooden tooth pick or similar moistened with a light weight oil such as TriFlow or clock oil wipe a sheen of oil to the inside of all parts that pivot on a stud. Place a trace of a light grease (white lithium or similar) under any part that slides on the mechanism plate or case including spring ends.
6. test speeds with a shutter speed tester.
http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6105
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Last edited by 45PSS on Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dstoenner



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 29
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS,

Thanks for the great instructions on replacing the blades. As Murphy would have it, I put the double across from the stud. I had followed the rest of your directions when I assembled it before.

What I haven't figured out was exactly where it is held up. But I think the only way I am going to find out is to disassemble it all again.

Oh well, practice makes perfect.

David
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3646
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shutter blades in the wrong position/starting point will cause 90%+ of the shutters in existence to jam up or not work smoothly.
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dstoenner



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 29
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS,

I spent yesterday taking the lens apart and cleaning everything up again. polishing the rotating ring and then assembling the blades in the position ans sequence you outlined.

Good news bad news. Now the shutter blades snap open correctly but they do not close. They start to and then hang. If I move the cocking lever slightly towards cock I can fell a catch that releases and blades close like they should. I was careful to try and see if I could feel any roughness of the blade ring when I had it apart and could feel nothing unusual.

I have a Kodamatic shutter that I got off of a Kodak Tourist. Specifically for parts. The blades look identical so I am thinking about taking this apart and swapping the entire ring, blades and backside. The plate doesn't look quite identical so I don't think I can swap the entire assembly. This shutter works fine in all directions.

Have you ever had this kind of problem?

Half the fun is trying to make things work again. the other half is figuring out how they work to began with.

thanks again

David
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3646
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like wear in the cocking lever allowing it to go too far at the closed end.

The service manual I paraphrased from states the blade assembly direction referencing a diagram of the front of the main plate. The direction of blade installation is counterclockwise looking from the front of the shutter, clockwise looking from the rear.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/thirteenthumbs/9f4230
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dstoenner



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 29
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS,

Today I pulled apart the Kodamatic I have and this time was careful to open the blades before I undid the backplate with the iris blades on it. I then noticed that the shutter blades did go clockwise around so when I put the shutter blades and the blade ring from the Kodamatic into my Supermatic, I did the clockwise rotation. I don't have the shutter completely back together but have the internal plate back in and enough of it together that I can cock and let the T levers catch the open and then close. It functions flawlessly now with no hesitation.

Tomorrow I will finish putting it all back together and see if it still functions with all of the gears and levers added.

Then for grins, I am going to take the blades and the rotating ring from the supermatic into the Kodamatic and see if it fails the same way.

It is too late now to measure the 2 square leafs of the 2 rings to see if there was a difference. What I did find was that the backplate of the Kodamatic was about .002 or so too big compared to the Supermatic so it was not interchangeable.

I'll let you know how it turns out.

Thanks for the reference on pictures. Well done

David
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dstoenner



Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 29
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The saga is finished.

I finished putting everything back together today and the shutter is running smoothly. When I tried to put the supermatic shutter blades in the Kodamatic, they wouldn't operate. What I saw was that the back side of the shutter blade has a brass nub and it is larger than the same nub on the Kodamatic. The Kodamatic was a donor so no big deal. just can't test my theory if the blades and control ring of the supermatic would work fine in the Kodamatic.

Charles,

Thanks so much for your help. Now to test this Ektar lens against my 101mm F4.5 coated Raptar.

David
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