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chase
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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 Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Hey everyone - new special owner and of course some questions i hope you can help me with.
My CG Special came with the 135mm Xenor standard lens. But there are two sets of infinity stops, a red and a blue set. A red dot on the back of the Lens board clued me in that it uses the red infinity stops.
The blue doted infinity stops - ? I'm not sure if they are for close up with this lens or prehaps used for another lens. Also i noticed a blue dot on the under side of the viewer mask that came with the camera.
Aside from that, is there a list of lenses that can be used with the CG Special? I did notice in the manual i have for the range finder it states something about factory issued lenses? versus customer lenses and the cam that can be used for them and or custom made cams?
Is there a standard set of lens and cams that work specifically for the CG Special?
Are there new lenses that fit the standard CG Special cams?
I'm a little lost on this.
I'd like to add a 210mm or 240mm or longer lens if possible.
What are the limits to the size lenses that work with standard cams for the CG Special?
And lastly - any one have a PDF of the owners manual specifically for the Crown Grafic Special with range finder on top that they could email me so i can print it out and study it?
Thanx and Happy Holidays
- chase -
[ This Message was edited by: chase on 2006-12-11 16:36 ]
[ This Message was edited by: chase on 2006-12-11 16:39 ] |
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Les
Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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On 2006-12-11 16:35, chase wrote:
Hey everyone - new special owner and of course some questions i hope you can help me with.
My CG Special came with the 135mm Xenor standard lens. But there are two sets of infinity stops, a red and a blue set. A red dot on the back of the Lens board clued me in that it uses the red infinity stops.
The blue doted infinity stops - ? I'm not sure if they are for close up with this lens or prehaps used for another lens. Also i noticed a blue dot on the under side of the viewer mask that came with the camera.
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Graflex color coded infinity stops, scales and masks when two lenses (any two lenses or more) were factory fitted. The color won't tell you what lens it is but the position of the infinity stops will give a good guess, and since you said "close up" I'm guessing these stops are farther out, suggesting a long lense like a 250 teleoptar or a 203 ektar.
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Aside from that, is there a list of lenses that can be used with the CG Special? I did notice in the manual i have for the range finder it states something about factory issued lenses? versus customer lenses and the cam that can be used for them and or custom made cams?
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I can come up with a list of common lenses issued with the Crown graphic: 90mm optar, 90mm Angulon, 100mm WF Ektar, 127 Ektar, 135 OPtar, 152 Ektar, 162 Optar, 190 Optar, 203mm EKtar, 250mm Teleoptar, 385mm Teleoptar.
But other company's lenses were often found on Graphic cameras as well.
The cam goes with the top rangefinder, not just the Crown Special. The reason Graflex talks about factory issued cams is that the stated focal lens of the lens is not always the actual focal length. They might vary a milimeter or two, but the cam had to be for the exact focal length. That's why Graflex had something like 15 cams for the 127mm focal length at one time.
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Is there a standard set of lens and cams that work specifically for the CG Special?
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Not a set exactly, Cams were wedded to a particular lens. Sometimes they even had a keeper for them on the back of the lensboard.
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Are there new lenses that fit the standard CG Special cams?
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This is the difficult part of anachronistic hardware. If you wanted it exactly like the factory, you'd have to put a new lens on an optical bench to find the exact focal length, then scour ebay to find the exact cam for that focal lenght. In real life, you find a 135 cam and a 135 Symmar and you use it and you stop down. It works. Now there are many many lenses that will fit/work on a Graphic when use the ground glass to focus.
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I'm a little lost on this.
I'd like to add a 210mm or 240mm or longer lens if possible.
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There are two ways to play this game. The easiest is to use either of these lenses with the ground glass. Then you'll only need to buy another lensboard. The second way is to set up the 135 lens with the cam and the focus scales. Set up another set of infinity stops and focus scales for your new lens. Leave the 135 cam in the rangefinder. Now you'll focus on a subject, look at the position of the focus scale for the 135mm lens, then transfer that distance to the focus scales of the new lens.
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What are the limits to the size lenses that work with standard cams for the CG Special?
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The smallest cam I know of is a 90mm, the longest is for the 385 teleoptar, which is pretty much of a joke, as it's a reall bugger to hand hold.
[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2006-12-12 06:32 ] |
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chase
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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| Posted: Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'm guessing these stops are farther out, |
yes, they are farther out than the red set - i'd say a little more than the mid way point on the rails, the blue colored scale is way in the back toward the beginning of the rail - red scale way up front at the end of the rails - red infinity stops about a third of the way out maybe(?) whatever the 135mm was set for.
No red dotted mask came with it - just the blue dotted one. from what i understand i need a #11 mask(?)
| Quote: | | There are two ways to play this game. The easiest is to use either of these lenses with the ground glass. Then you'll only need to buy another lensboard. The second way is to set up the 135 lens with the cam and the focus scales. Set up another set of infinity stops and focus scales for your new lens. Leave the 135 cam in the rangefinder. Now you'll focus on a subject, look at the position of the focus scale for the 135mm lens, then transfer that distance to the focus scales of the new lens. |
hmmm(?) well i was hoping to set it up like factory - the rangfinder service manual explains how to set up the finder for two lenses using the master cam.
it also stated in the service manula under the "How to use it the Range Finder" section, that you (the photographer) simply change out to the matching cam when changing lenses. I take it from what you are saying this is not as easy as they say or make it sound in the service manual?
I really want this camera to be factory - with two comprable lenses - maybe three in total. Fred had mentioned at times there was a green set of stops and scales as well depending if there was three lenses used for the camera. Said it tended to confuse the photographer.
I did find a cam # (yellow stamped) on the back of the lens board that came with the camera (the 135mm lens). seems pretty simple to remove the existing cam and check to see which one it is. (the range finder isn't working at the moment anyway [no bearings or spacers in the tube] so what the heck it can't hurt to take the cam out.)
thanks for the info on the lenses
now does anyone have a scaned manual for the Crown Graphic Special in pdf they can email me - i'd really appriciate it. besides it's the X-mas time of the year!
-tia-
- chase - |
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45PSS
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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go to: http://www.southbristolviews.com/
scroll thru the Graflex manuals posted there and download any you want.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU. |
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chase
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Graflex Corp.was a (silent) supporter of Rain Forest Devastation.
ouch that smarts! 
Thanx for the link 45PSS - checked and didn't see one specifically for the Crown Grafic Special.
I did browse thru and read up on some of the similairities though.
Again thanks
- chase - |
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45PSS
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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A Pacemaker is a Pacemaker, a Crown is a Crown. A search with Crown Graphic as the key word and all the terms selected and speed graphic help as the fourm selection= a lot of posts and this truth that may smart a little: http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?topic=3658&forum=1
P.S.
Go have fun shooting some quality pictures, it will take the sting out of the Graphic truths.
_________________
Graflex Corp.was a (silent) supporter of Rain Forest Devastation.
[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2006-12-13 21:47 ] |
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chase
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Posts: 6
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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What i have seen, via the pdfs, is sutle differences between the Crown Graphic Special, the Pacemaker and the Crown Speed, and they are differnces other than price mentioned via that last link.
One quick differnce i found via your site was the Pacemaker and/or Speed have a dial onthe back of the viewer - mine does not.
The Speed has a rear shutter somewhere perhaps other do as well - mine does not
The Speed does 1/1000 of a second - mine does not.
Mine says special on the lens board - the others do not.
Some came with bearing and others came with bearing and spacers in the tube for the range finder... as wella shorter and others longer lower plunger
I also noted a slight differnce in the mount for the Flash unit. as well as Bi pin to PC differnce in the Flash sync connectiion.
So thats why i ask for things specific to my model camera. Differences may be sutle but there are from what i see - differences.
I didn't see a pdf for a owners manual on your linked site for the Crown - saw one for the Speed and Pacemaker and the 21/4 by 31/4 but not just the Crown.
I'm going through this with my Toyo 4x5 - versus Omega 4x5 - believe it or not - i found a difference in the two seemingly identical cameras - a washer on one is not found on the other - as well - a latched viewer that attaches to the glaflex back of the Toyo fits one camera perfectly and doesn't the other by a 1/16 to 1/8" throwing off the squarness and hence the focal plane of the viewer... which does make a huge differnce when taking pics.
Anyway thanks for the link - i did disover some things that are common to the Grafics cameras that was very useful to me.
As well the Jiffy Calculator was cool and the Bellows calculator i found there.
Still want the specific manual for my camra though - 
merry X-mas
- chase -
[ This Message was edited by: chase on 2006-12-14 09:59 ] |
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RichS
Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1468
Location: South of Rochester, NY
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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As far as I know, there are no known and consistant differences between the 'Special' and any other Crown. All they did was put on a cheaper lens and the name plate. Any other differences would be due to time (who ever changed things after it was bought) and Graflex oddities which are well known.
Just enjoy the camera. It's a Crown like any other...
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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"
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45PSS
Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 4081
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:10 am Post subject: |
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Crown=no focal plane shutter
Speed=1/1000 focal plane shutter
Name on lens board lock may say different things but they will fit on any version of the same size format.
Flash brackets and lens are auxilary equipement and will varry form camera to camera.
Pacemaker user manual should cover all cameras-2 1/4 x 3 1/4; 3x4; 4x5; Speed or Crown. Skip step if yours does not have that item on it; that's the Graflex way.
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU. |
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Les
Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Once you get into the era of the Top Rangefinder Graphic (Speed or Crown) the only difference between a Crown Special and a "normal" Crown MADE AT THE SAME TIME is the lens. A Crown Special had the 135 Xenar, a regular Crown would have an Optar or EKtar on it.
Now you mentioned long and short plungers on the rangefinder, the number of balls and cylinders, etc etc. These are all running changes made by Graflex on all models, not specific to the Crown Special.
Find a repair manual for Pacemaker Crown (or Speed and Crown). That's what you'll need. That's what Graflex made. And it will give you an idea of how far we have come in repair manuals in the last 45 years. It's not great, but it's all we have.
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"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison |
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