Tyler wrote:

If I picked up a lens with the M sync and relied on the lens shutter than I am good with those bulbs ?

Certainly!

C. Henry

Henry,
I don't want to confuse Tyler any more than necessary, but If he's using X sync @ 1/25 then the bulb will hit peak output when the shutter is closing. So while it will work, it won't be efficient.

Tyler,
I have about 4 CT-1s &2s they were( are?) the top of the line (highest output) Metz made. The CT-1 is the US version of the CT-2. The only difference is the film speed scale is in ISO/ASA on the CT-1 and in DIN on the CT-2.

4x5 Cameras need more light than a typical 35mm or 120 camera. For decent depth of field you'll want to be shooting around f8-11. The CT series, while not a bright as flashbulbs, has enough power to get the job done.

The CT4 has two flashes, so you can bounce the head off the ceiling and let the little guy give some sparkle with direct light. I always lusted after a CT-4 and a Hassy 503cx but never could afford it.

The CL series has the benefit of not having a separate battery pack but they are a bit wimpy compared to the CT series and probably won't give as many flashes per set of batteries, but I doubt you'll be burning through 50 or 60 sheets of film at a time.

Solenoid vs internal sync. Unless you were playing with press cameras before WWII, chances are you grew up with cameras with internal synchronization, where the shutter closes the circuit on the flash bulb (or electronic flash) But before internal synch came around, there were solenoids and very heavy flash battery cases. To use an old Apple Computer slogan and irritate all of the 4th grade English teachers: "These work Different"
With a Solenoid set up you have two separate circuits. One circuit goes to the flash bulb, one circuit runs to the solenoid. A picture is taken when the red button is pressed on the flash battery case. Voltage runs to the flash bulb and starts a fire in the flashbulb. It takes a little time to get things going in there. At the same time the voltage causes the solenoid to contract. There's enough play in the solenoid linkage that the shutter is reaches full open AROUND 20ms later, which is about when the flash bulb hits its peak. The thing to remember is the flash trips the shutter.

I say around because there are a lot of factors that control the delay: the age of the solenoid, the age of the batteries, the linkage between the shutter and the solenoid. And a bigger problem today is to match the solenoid with the battery case. There are 3 solenoids marked, #2 (originally for a 2 cell case) a #3 (for 3 cell case) and a #0 which wasn't used for sync'ing but just remote tripping.

If you feel you just have to use the flash and flashbulbs, I say find a new lens that has full sync. A typical Graphex (also branded Rapax) shutter will have an appendage at 4 o'clock and a lever that adjusts to several delays. Supermatics will say

EDIT: FLASH SUPERMATIC and have a sliding window near the bipost that will usually be set to "M" There one here: http://cgi.ebay.com/KODAK-EKTAR-101mm-f4-5-IN-KODAK-GRAPHIC-SUPERMATIC_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ3323QQihZ016QQitemZ260352605729QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsupported

though with these you have to not only cock the shutter,but cock the time delay too. Either of these will synch more reliably than a solenoid.

Just as a reference, this auction has a Rapax shutter with full sync. A Graphex shutter is nothing more than a Rapax shutter made for Graflex. Towards the end of production, Graflex used Rapax badged lenses.

http://cgi.ebay.com/162mm-f4-5-Raptar-in-Rapax-shutter-No-reserve_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ3323QQihZ027QQitemZ400027690342QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVWQQsalenotsupported

or go to ebay and search for auction # 400027690342

While it's difficult to see, the red M & F correspond to red numbered shutter speeds.

Thank you all!

To continue the solenoid discussion, Tyler, let me suggest you consider my favorite setup - use the solenoid as an electronic tripper of your shutter, and use the flash sync capabilities of your shutter to ensure proper sync with your flash - either bulbs or electronic flash.

What I do is use the available settings on the Graflite flash tube to enable me to trip the shutter using the red button on the tube with one cord connected from the tube to the solenoid on the lensboard [the solenoid cord], and another cord used from the shutter's sync output to carry that signal back to the tube to set off the flash [the sync cord].

There are several female plugs on the flash tube, as well as a setting for the various operations using the red button, and you can learn their function by studying the Graflite flash manual.

As Les said, you'll need a full sync [X & M] shutter to do this. I use an electronic flash attached to the top of my Graflite flash tube [which replaces the flash bulb reflector]. If you use this setup for flashbulbs, the proper setting of the switch on the flash tube will prevent the bulb from tripping when you press the red button and it will only flash when it receives the signal from the shutter, using the sync cord.

There is just something elegant about having the electric shutter release which appeals to me.

Hope that is not confusing. Just goes to show how versitile these machines are and the many ways they can be used.

I will have to read that over a few more times before it sinks in.
I am only used to using flash in a studio with large speedotron packs and contemporary lenses....it took very little thought. That was my commercial work. For my personal work I always used natural light. I am now going to start on a series of night portraits.
Thank you all for the help.

Some of the early Flash Supermatic shutters require a minor external modification to use today's electronic flash units. A fine wire needs to be wrapped around the left (facing the shutter) post on the bi-post connector and the other end of the wire grounded to the shutter frame (I did this by replacing one of the two screws on the Press-Focus button housing to tie the wire to the shutter frame).

Some of the early Flash Supermatic shutters were set up with a 10K-ohm resistor in series with the flash contacts when the syncronizer lever was not cocked. This was a "bulb saver" feature that would allow a Kodatron (early Kodak electronic flash) to be tripped, but a flash bulb would not fire unless the syncronizer lever was first cocked. If the photographer failed to cock the syncronizer lever, it would not waste the bulb and could try again.

The Kodatron had a high-voltage, low-current triggering circuit which would fire ok with the 10,000 ohm series resistance present. To get my Metz unit to fire, I had to wire the external shunt that essentially bypasses or shorts the 10K series resistor.

I hope this helps!

Jim23

While I have no idea what voltage was used in the Kodatron's "high-voltage, low-current triggering circuit", I find that my Metz 45CT-1 has an approximately 200 volt trigger circuit. Not exactly a low voltage if you happen to get a hold of it by mistake!

C. Henry

Thanks.
I have a set of contemporary lenses that I am going to use on my project with a
..... Metz 45CL-4 ?
The older lenses will work great for all the other shots I plan on doing.
All of the information I have gathered from you guys will be very important to me once I am comfortable with the initial set-up.
Thank you again.

Tyler,
One other point should be mentioned. Using vintage shutters can be a crap shoot. A lot of these shutters have been sitting around for a long time and there are several things that commonly go wrong when trying to get these to fire a flash. The insulation on old flash sync cords was originally some type of rubber and these cord will eventually go bad. Replacing the old cords is always a good idea. Also, the internal synchronizer on these old shutters usually consisted of a geared mechanism to delay the shutter and a set of internal electrical contacts that probably need to be cleaned and/or adjusted. If you want to use the lens and shutter for critical work, you should remember to budget some money to get the shutter serviced by a reliable person. If you spend some time looking at the flash help forum on this site, you can get an idea of problems that others have already had to deal with.

Regards,
Dave