He gets amazing prices on everything-) I think he could sell the Golden Gate bridge and get a bidding war.

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On 2003-04-22 07:35, Dan Fromm wrote: The F135 is electrically driven, needs power. Needs a control box. Needs a cradle. The film is 5" wide, the two gates are 56 mm x 57 mm. The 38/4.5 Biogon is widely believed to cover an 80 mm circle, i.e., exactly nominal 6x6. This is true for the Hasselblad version because the front of its barrel is long enough to protect the lens if the camera is set down lens down; it vignettes. The F135 version, after extraction from its shutter, lacks that protection and covers 84 mm with good illumination, 87 mm with good sharpness. See my current eBay listing for a sample shot take with it, look for Biogon. Its a full frame scan, the holder was an Adapt-A-Roll 620, gate 57.0 x 82.4. Sell balsam and recement it yourself? Yeah, sure, why not? Take lessons in puffery from dagor77 and Jim Galli (tpahjim on eBay). About experimentation, um, I've seen the same thing. Two possible explanations. For those who want to shoot, good gear in working order is cheap enough to be a better alternative to trying to fix broken. Alternatively, people aren't as much into tinkering as they used to be. Me, I'm still in grad student mode, i.e., more time than money, at least for things I like to tinker with. I certainly don't have enough money to get an SWC, for example. That's why I tried the F135. Cheers, Dan

Sounds like an interesting camera and looks like a nice lens. It got me thinking about buying two to make a nice wide angle for my TLR. Then I remembered the limitation in physical size since the lenses have to be so close together... Oh-well... Saves me money

I agree that tinkering is fast becoming a lost art, all the way down from profession a couple hundred years ago... And resources like ebay hurt more than help. We have created a throw-away society that prefers to buy new every year or so.

Got a great new idea for the balsam. Hot melt glue sticks! Stick em in your hot-melt glue gun, squeeze the trigger and glue up all your lenses. No mess, no waste, no waiting. Just 19.95 a stick, with full instructions, illustrated of course.

"Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible.." - Euell Gibbons

Here's a link to Summers Optical. It's a good source of information on sepparrattingg (hehe) and recementing lenses though they may not stock balsam.

http://www.emsdiasum.com/Summers/optical/cements/default.htm

The S.K. Grimes company can still do many recementing jobs.

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On 2003-04-27 07:55, JoePhoto wrote: "Ever eat a pine tree? Many parts are edible.." - Euell Gibbons Here's a link to Summers Optical. It's a good source of information on sepparrattingg (hehe) and recementing lenses though they may not stock balsam. http://www.emsdiasum.com/Summers/optical/cements/default.htm The S.K. Grimes company can still do many recementing jobs.

Thanks for the link. I've looked into many sites that offer info on recementing, SK Grimes included.
The major point here is twofold. The lens itself is not really worth the investment of having someone do the job. And the whole 'tinkering' discussion above. It's the learning process, not the finished job so much.
And my balsam has arrived. Crystal clear and about as thick as good honey. Small air bubbels stay suspended with no apparent movement for days. And speaking of days, I still have several test drops waiting to dry... This process may take a while

I bought a 3-1/4 x 4-1/4 Graflex off eBoo mainly because of the 17? mm Aero Ektar which someone had gotten to fit on it. I was thrilled until I tried to view and focus and then found that there was some weird haze in the front group. It turned out to be some kind of separation. I don't know what cement was they used at the time but I figured it was balsam. I wasn't willing to use the same method of separating <I looked it up> that Steve Grimes used (heat) so I took a plastic deli dish with a cover, put the lens on a piece of cloth in the bottom of the dish and poured acetone until it came up over the lens. It's a slow method but every day I could see clearing moving towards the center and after just over 1 week I could slide the two elements apart. Careful cleaning with fresh acetone, rinsing in water, cleaning with Dawn dish soap, drying with soft cloth and a final cleaning with lens cleaner had them ready for recementing. I used a mirror for a flat surface and prisms from an old pair of binoculars to keep the edges in line. A few drops of Summers UV cement then placing the front element on the second centering them with the prisms. After about 1/2 hour I found that I didn't use enough cement. Back to the acetone and the previous cleaning process. This time with enough cement which moved properly to the edges and an hour under a standard black light (about 6 inches away)I soon had a nice clean looking lens. Luckily the radio element is clear already aside from the tint. I don't know if I'd want to attempt it with the rear. It's a heavy piece of junk on my Anniversary Speed Graphic and I haven't got any photos with it yet but soon.......

_________________
If the best can't be had let the worst continue....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JoePhoto on 2003-08-05 18:26 ]</font>

Ahhh, I still have dreams of picking up a radioactive aero ektar... Yes, I know they're readily available, but what money I have goes to things I'll hopefully use...

Thanks for the description! I've heard of using acetone for seperation and cleaning but never heard from someone who actually did it.

How difficult was the cleaning process after the seperation?
And what kind of black light did you use? Most I see are either very low power or very expensive...

Unfortunately, I haven't gone any further with lens recementing yet. Believe it or not, the balsam is still sitting there drying... The stuff apparently will not dry out on its own. I'm thinking now the only way to dry it would be to heat it and forcefully evaporate what solvents remain. I've also thought that the stuff is theck enough as-is and as long as the lens elements are physically held in place, they could be recemented with the liquid and just left alone If it were only that easy... But one of these days I'll find the time (if the balsam ever dries) to takle the lens. Or, use it as-is, or throw in the towel and use a moden cement?

How did you remove the cemented lenses from their housing? I have some lenses that are either cemented or air-gapped that are hazy...but the little "barrels" they are housed in are "crimped" around the edge to hold them physically in place. I don't see how I could possibly remove the elements without damage. Fred.

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On 2003-08-06 04:25, clnfrd wrote: How did you remove the cemented lenses from their housing? I have some lenses that are either cemented or air-gapped that are hazy...but the little "barrels" they are housed in are "crimped" around the edge to hold them physically in place. I don't see how I could possibly remove the elements without damage. Fred.

I have a T&R with some slight edge seperation that is also constructed that way. No hopes of getting the elements out... I think it was on SKGrimes site where I read that they turn the housing on a lathe to cut the crimp off and free the elements. They don't mention how they reassemble! That's not something I would want to do to a lens that is at all usable so I'm hoping mine doesn't get any worse for a long time...

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The cleaning process wasn't that difficult. The fresh acetone was important because I needed to remove the leftover cement which gets deposited when the acetone dries. After that it was just Dawn with a soft cloth. The lens group was held in with a threaded ring which had a few set screws holding it in place. After the screws came out a rubber strap wrench (hand item and fairly cheap) got the ring off. The black light was just a 14 or so inch model that I got for around $14. Here's what the whole thing looked like when I bought it :
<img src ="http://www.syzygyst.com/JoePhoto/grafaeroek.jpg">

A reflex... Nice looking! If I ever get financially sound again, I'd like to get one of those just to experience using one.

My greatest fear of doing a recementing is getting finished without a hitch and being overly pleased with my work, until I notice a thumbprint right in the middle of the lens elements

So this 14 inch black light; I'm guessing a flouresent? Where did you find one for $14? And that was enough to cure the cement? I thought they needed a stronger source? I might have to rethink cementing! Although I was also looking into a larger scale light for POP printing. Maybe 8 or 10 of those 14 inch ones would do? Thanks!

The light was just a standard flourescent blacklight and I propped it up on the ends so it was close to the lens. I think I got that one at Spencer gifts in the hippie supply/strobelight/poster department. I just guessed at the time. That's the same type SK used although he had a spotlight affair with a really dark UV filter.

Wow, I haven't been to a Spencer in years! I don't know of any around here, but I'm sure I could find an old hippie blacklight
Thanks!

We sell blacklight bulbs at the hardware store where I work. (and flourescent fixtures also)
Charles

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On 2003-08-06 22:47, 45PSS wrote: We sell blacklight bulbs at the hardware store where I work. (and flourescent fixtures also) Charles

You work in a hippie hardware store?