Graflex.org

exbrit49 · Joined: 23 Jul 2002 Posts: 6 Location: MId-west USA

Recently found a nice old Speed graphic and need some help pinning down the approx year of manufacture
It is 4x5 format. and has the old 36 postion rear shutter, The lens is a Carl Zeiss Jena F4.5. 13.5 Cm and the shutter is by F Deckel, Compur Munich. Need help with identifying the year and approx value. Mechanically everthing seems fine, both shutters work well and the chrome is really good, There is some wear on the leatherette covering. The back is the standard Spring 4x5 back with the leatherette gone from the flip up back to the view finder,Bellows are in really good shape,
Instead of a rangefinder there is an optical viewfinder on top. All in all the camera is very sound.
Its the Zeiss lens and compur shutter that threw me as normally I believe these were sold with Kodak lenses. I can provide some jpeg images if it will help. Cant find any flash synch any where, there is none on the Compur shutter and I read there was supposed to be a flash connector on the side for the rear shutter.
HELP HELP HELP . I cant find any serial number and I dont see any date code on the lens board.
Would appreciate any help in identifying this wonderful old camera.
Roger

[ This Message was edited by: exbrit49 on 2002-07-25 19:49 ]

45PSS · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 4:18 am Post subject:

Have you looked here yet?
http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/graphic-models.html

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

exbrit49 · Joined: 23 Jul 2002 Posts: 6 Location: MId-west USA

YEs, I have looked here and the closest seems to be the Pacemaker, but there are some differences that have me puzzled. The page mentions a lever or switch to select between front and rear shutters, Unless I am missing something, this one doesnt have that. Also where the rangefinder appears on the Pacemaker is just a small accessory bracket, it may be that someone may have removed it in the past.
As far as the rear shutter, there is the speed selector which offers the "0" "T" A,B C and D settings, down below is the shutter tension so this probably indicates prior to 1955
Is there some marking on the Speed graphics that would indicate the approx year
Thanks Roger

45PSS · Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 6:20 am Post subject:

Read the Pre Anniversary information. Notice the "blue" size numbers are links to more info? Bet you have a curved wire frame finder on the front standard and although I.m not very familar with this vintage, the focal plane shutter description definately says it is a PRE as the pacemaker series are totally different. Somewhere on that tensioning guide plate in a lower corner, I think, is a number that is simul;ar in nature to a serial number.
Bet your's looks simular to this one (chrome was striped leaving the brass underlayment)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1368441996.
Rangefinders were options and very common on most speed/crowns.
Charles

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

bertsaunders · Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 8:47 pm Post subject:

Pre-Anniversary (1928/39)had a flat faced wooden front door (lense cover door), the ser # would be stamped >inside top< under the tube viewfinder along front edge! Early models would only have flash synch on the lens, as the 9 years of manufacture progressed, synch was added to the cloth shutter as well,located on back of camera! The yoke (lens standard is mounted on the yoke)on these models was not linked to the yoke section inside the body!
Anniversary models (1940/46)I have an early model with the ser # still stamped in the body, a later model with a tag inside the (all metal) front door! Ser# is necessary to identify your camera, suspect it to be an early Pre-Ann model, if it has no sync plugin for curtain shutter! Bert

exbrit49 · Joined: 23 Jul 2002 Posts: 6 Location: MId-west USA

Thanks all
Definitely s Pre- Anniversary but still some unusual differences. I will try to take some digital pics. tomorrow and will make them available, to look at via email. The front door is raised instead of flat, can’t find a serial number any where. Have looked high and low, someone suggested there might be a marking around the lower tension knob but nothing there either. Its almost like this one was between models or a very late version of the Pre. The wire viewfinder is not the rounded top type either. It’s square.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

actually you have to start low and look high. I hope this inline image helps. the number is stamped inside the body on the underside of the top of the box on the right side when looking at the lens.

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2002-07-30 05:43 ]

bertsaunders · Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2002 7:53 pm Post subject:

The Anniversary model was the first to have the "aluminum front lens cover door" Raised bump in the middle (lens clearance) and the sports finder would be the "round" wire type..2 piece pull up, and squarish! I have 3 cameras that do not have serial no's on them, (1) 3x4 Graflex, (1) 4x5 Anniversary Speed, and a 4x5 Pace Crown, (the mounting holes for the door tag are not even there) so it is not uncommon for some ser #'s to have been....Missed....at the factory! Your description fits the Ann model closer than the Pre-Ann model----should have the chrome trim around the front face also, w/Graflex emblem at center top!! A photo would certainly help in this case! Check one more time for (2) things.....sometimes the >stamped< numbers inside the body were very faint, try looking at it with a flashlight at diff angles----and check inside the lens cover door for 4 small holes in the center of the'bump',sometimes parts are replaced, and someone may have removed the ser # tag completely, if your camera proves to be a Ann model, it was only made during the WWII war years, 40/46, so the age of the camera is somewhere in between! Bert

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2120 Location: New Jersey

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

Actually the photo was just for the arrows showing where the serial numbers are.

this is either a cycle A or cycle Sr. from about 1894-7. No really made by F&S, but made for them.

exbrit49 · Joined: 23 Jul 2002 Posts: 6 Location: MId-west USA

Hey thanks to all for the replies, Finally found the serial number inside the upper right front, it is 394120. So now maybe we can get a positive ID. Again thanks to all for the assistance.
can anyone now tell what year from the serial number or how can I find out. Is the 39 perhaps the year?
Roger

Gandolf · Joined: 26 Dec 2001 Posts: 328 Location: middle earth

the serial number says is a 3x4from '46. which would make in a full blown Anniversary, probably not even an war time version

I believe some pre war lenses were 'discovered' after the war when kodak lenses were in short suppy.