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Electronic flash sync from graflite

 
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MonkeyBrain



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Electronic flash sync from graflite Reply with quote

Hi, I probably already know the answer to this, but as it's not the answer I want to hear I'm rather optimistically hoping someone will tell me something different ; )

I've been having no end of problems getting a cord to sync my Crown with electronic flash. I ordered one from Paramount, it got stolen en route. They very kindly sent me a replacement at no charge, but unfortunately it wasnt the cord I'd asked for. At which point they not-so-kindly stopped responding to my emails. So I ordered another Bi-Post to PC cord from "the bay"...and received something totally different to what was advertised (I think its for Kodak cameras! Of no use to me anyway).

However, I have here a cord which when hooked up to the "extension" output of my graflite handle (no flash head on it, just using it as a grip and shutter trigger) and attached to yet another cable, will allow me to trigger my studio flash without any problem.

The thing is that, from reading other threads re. the syncing of graflex cameras with electronic flash, I suspect that this method will probably trigger the flash too soon and therefore the lens will not be fully open when the flash fires.

But I'd love it if someone would tell me otherwise (and it to be true)...

I could probably test this theory by burnign a sheet or two of fujiroid, but A) I dont have any, and B) I'm just leaving for a long trip and in the middle of packing and deciding what gear to bring...not really a good moment for technical tests.

Thanks
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What lens(es) are you using? It all depends on whether or not the shutters have built-in flash synch (usually marked with an "X" for electronic flash)! If they do, you're good to go with your set-up (or a proper bi-post to PC cord---I don't really understand the problem you're having obtaining one of these very common items). BTW, the ASA bayonet tip on the one cord you mentioned was a common Kodak application; I have such a flash connection on my old Pony 135 35mm camera, and Kodak flashes in the '50s commonly had this set-up, as did many of their shutters.

I have a couple of bi-post to Vivitar cords from Paramount. Thank goodness for Paramount!
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MonkeyBrain



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Henry, thanks for the quick response

Henry wrote:
What lens(es) are you using? It all depends on whether or not the shutters have built-in flash synch (usually marked with an "X" for electronic flash)!


Yes, lens has X-sync, and I was aware that this is essential for electronic flash...but as this method bypasses the Bi-Post I wasnt sure if it didnt also bypass whatever circuitry is required to make the shutter and flash communicate (no, I've no idea how cameras work...you can tell, right?)


Henry wrote:
If they do, you're good to go with your set-up (or a proper bi-post to PC cord


that's great news! thanks.


Henry wrote:
I don't really understand the problem you're having obtaining one of these very common items


That makes two of us.

Just pure bad luck I think. And the fact I'm not in the US. Been similarly cursed in trying to obtain replacement mirror for the rangefinder (as 45PSS will confirm...).

The paramount cord was something custom built, as I wanted a hotshoe on one end to use with a radio slave, but despite me describing exactly what I needed to do with the cord Paramount went and put a male hotshoe on the end rather than a female one. Which tbh I can't see being of any use to anyone in any conceivable situation...

The ebay purchase was no doubt a seller mixing up orders. They're sending me another one, but I'm concerned it might not arrive in time, so it would be great if I can work with what I've got in the meantime.

Thanks again...
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the shutter is marked with X-synch, that means that the bi-post is part of the synch circuitry; I don't understand why you say that it's bypassed (OK, I see that you're referring to your jury-rigged set-up). What exactly is the shutter, may I ask? Once you get a proper bi-post to PC cord, it should work for you.
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MonkeyBrain



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shutter is a Graphex.

And yes, I meant that the shutter is bypassed when triggering the flash as I am doing it now. I.e. I press the red button on the Graflite handle, which fires the shutter via solenoid while simultaneously triggering the flash via a cable from the "Extension" output of the Graflite handle.

My assumption at the beginning was that, as the signal for the flash doesnt come from the shutter (but rather from an external source: the graflite), this method might not put shutter and flash in sync.

Hope that's a little clearer (though I'm not convinced).

Yes, I know the Bi-Post to PC cord will get me up and running fully, but I may not receive a replacement cord before I'm due to start working on an assignment, so i was wondering if this would tide me over in the meantime.

But I'm guessing you're about to confirm my initial suspicions that it won't. : (
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only way to get the flash in sync !! is coming off of the shutter to the flash
you can use the red button to trip the shutter BUT you need to come off of the
shutter to get in sync with the flash!!
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MonkeyBrain



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Banjo, thanks, that's what I originally thought...was just hoping I might be wrong : (
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can test it out by setting up as you said
by putting the flash out in front of the lens & look on the ground glass
as you push to red button and see what it looks like

But when looking on the ground glass to see the flash use a low power
setting on your flash SO not to burn your eyes

at slow speed it can maybe work OK

but at high speeds it wont

so its up to what you need for your job if you can get by with slow speed
and are using a trypod go for it
and when I say slow speeds that mite work thats like 60th & slower

NOW I konw some people that do use it as you said FOR what they wont and it give then an artist look! of ok on the face with Vinyeted to black for everything
eles but to do this they have to use very hot flash to get it right
as it fires the flash some thing like 4 milsce. be for the shutter even opens!!!
NOW this 4 milsce. be for the shutter even opens gives the old flash bolbs time
to get hot to make the flash at its britest when the shutter is all the way open

I have never tryed to do or use it in this way !! so I don't know if it would work!

BUT I have & do test my flash sync. this way to see if it right
I did this all the time on 35mm cameras to see if they need to go in for repars!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3209
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banjo,
the way I test is to connect up to the shutter as you plan to use it then open the aperture to full open, point the shutter and flash toward a lightly colored wall, hold the flash just in front of and to one side of the shutter then trip the shutter. If the sync is correct you will see a wall color bright spot in the shutter opening, if it is off you will see the edges of the shutter blades or a dimming wall colored spot depending on how far out of sync the flash is. The shutter can be mounted or unmounted to a lens board or on the camera with the focus panel removed.

Flash bulb sync speed is 1/30 or slower; electronic flash 1/60 - 1/125 or slower depending on the electronic flash in use.
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