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Repair of lens board attachment screws
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:14 pm    Post subject: Repair of lens board attachment screws Reply with quote

Is there any problem of drilling larger hole into the existing threaded slot, so as to drill out the what remains of the existing screw shank?

Or are the old screws, stainless steal?
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At:

http://graflex.org/manuals/4x5-Anniversary-Speed-Graphic.pdf

3c ... it states for "Screw retaining strip (3/16" #2 OH Parker Kalon)

Do I have the right reference?
Surely these screws where longer than 3/16"?

Or am I misreading?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anniversary Speeds, 4x5 format, use T nut inserts and it is assumed the 3x4 does also. The 4x5 appears to have the threaded inserts pressed in and the front standard is plastic (Bakelite?)

Therefore it is not advisable to drill the insert oversize.

The lensboard slide lock screw on the 4x5 is a #1-64, .25 inch total length, .045 head thickness (fillister head closest style I can find), .08 shoulder.

Tap drill for a #1-64 is a #53 drill bit.

Get a Pin Vise and a #53 drill bit and center drill the screw out, the thread shell will be easy to remove.

Using a 1.4 or smaller slot type jewelers screwdriver keep the tip 90 (right angle) to the thread and push to the left (counterclockwise), the screw may unscrew if it is not seized or bottomed.

Pin Vise:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=pin+vise&sprefix=pin+vise%2Caps%2C303

#53 drill bit:
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%2353+drill+bit
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Last edited by 45PSS on Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Do I have the right reference?

No, its 24815- screw,lensboard slide lock, size not listed for the top lensboard sliding retainer..
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anniversary Speeds, 4x5 format, use T nut inserts and it is assumed the 3x4 does also. The 4x5 appears to have the threaded inserts pressed in and the front standard is plastic (Bakelite?)

So these T nut's are steel, inserted into the Bakelite.

Quote:
The lensboard slide lock screw on the 4x5 is a #1-64, .25 inch total length, .045 head thickness (fillister head closest style I can find), .08 shoulder.

Knew it had to be longer.. Where to purchase?
Doubt Ace would have it, but I'll check in the morning.
Pin vise, ha a tool I never knew existed.. but how else with such a small screw, to clamp it...will get one...

Quote:
Tap drill for a #1-64 is a #53 drill bit.

If I drill the screw out with the #53, being the same size, I'll have to awful careful, or I'll get the threads to. So how to center.. give me a clue.
Looking at pictures of a Pin vise, it doesn't look like it will automatically center into the hole.

Quote:
Using a 1.4 or smaller slot type jewelers screwdriver keep the tip 90 (right angle) to the thread and push to the left (counterclockwise), the screw may unscrew if it is not seized or bottomed.

Both screws are broken within the threaded hole, not at the surface.
But if I could wedge a smaller tip inside the drilled void, it could come out.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Doubt Ace would have it, but I'll check in the morning.

you might find some at a model rail road store and there is a slim chance a radio controlled model store will have some.
Quote:
If I drill the screw out with the #53, being the same size, I'll have to awful careful, or I'll get the threads to. So how to center.. give me a clue.

#53 is the tap size, #48 for a close fit, #46 for a free fit. A 2-56 tap is #50.
http://www.shender4.com/thread_chart.htm
Quote:
Looking at pictures of a Pin vise, it doesn't look like it will automatically center into the hole.

A pin vise is a clamp that will go down to zero clearance in the jaws where most drills will not go tighter than 1/16.

Talk to a good machinist. Larger stuff use a center punch to make a start indention.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck finding the 1-64. The common thread is 1-72 in model railroad work. The sequence goes 5-32, 4-40, 3-48, 2-56, 1-72, 0-80, 00-90.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found some on internet, have to buy by the box of 100, .25" length under head, in stock.
Available in alloy steel or stainless steel, which in fact is cheaper, which is odd..

Would the stainless steel be a better replacement?

~~~~~
Now to get the old out
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get the old out first then find some new ones. You might be able to tap the inserts to 2-56 and modify the slots in the slide lock to fit the larger screw. Graflex might have used a different screw size in the 3x4 also.

I would go with Brass or Stainless Steel for the metal type as zinc plated steel will eventually rust.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Ace had a #53 bit, but not a Pin Vise
Came home and dug around and found old grandpa's hand drill, with wood vertical handle with bits inside. Tall guy with hand crank, and gears.
Lovely!
Had to lube it up with 3 in One oil, but was perfect for the job, as all the weight is centered on the bit. Bet the drill is older than the camera by a bit.
Gave it a try, out in the sun's light, and it self centered, and the darn screws turned out to be brass. That was a surprise, as looking under the magnifying glass, of the broken end of the screw, it looked like metal.
Drilled out with the magnifying glass, can see the threads in there, but I don't believe there is a metal insert, just backelite.
Found some brass 1-64's, just had to buy 50, so were in duck soup and see how they fit when they arrive.

Thanks for all the help, will post when we complete the repair.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just googled up "pin vise," and got this hit:
http://www.staples.com/General-Tools-Swivel-Head-Pin-Vises-5-16-x-4-inch/product_581050?cid=PS:GooglePLAs:Cleaning_/_Facilities_/_Safety:Safety_Supplies:581050:318-92

I never thought Staples would carry such an item!
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the 1-64's, small brass screws with a Phillips head, shortest I could get them was 1/4", which was a little long. No problem, went to ace and a nut for a 1-72 will tread on, easily, and act as a spacer and also makes a little wider head to hold the metal plate on.

Were back in business.

Got 48 of these little darlings left.. if anybody has a need, e-mail me with your address, and I'll mail ya a couple.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tip: screw 2 nuts onto the screw you need shorter. Position the nut closest to the end of the screw at the length from the head that you need and tighten the second nut against the first. Cut the screw next to the front nut with a fine blade hacksaw or cutoff wheel in a rotary tool. Unscrewing the nuts will remove any burs. If the screw did not cut smoothly dress it with a file before removing the nuts.
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely.. been there done that, but difficult when you have no 1-64 nuts.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3208
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tip #2: more difficult than tip 1. Use a Taper file and follow the thread of the screw from 1 to 2 turns above the cut to the cut keeping a V of the file centered in the thread.
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