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Miniature Speed Graphic film holder question

 
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:00 am    Post subject: Miniature Speed Graphic film holder question Reply with quote

Camera lens is from 1941. Camera is probably same vintage. It does not have a Graflok back but the Graphic (spring) back. I have read and re-read the FAQ here on this site. What I am unclear about is what sort of 2x3 film holders fit this thing. For my 4x5 cameras I have one that takes the "regular" kind and another that takes the slotted kind. Is there such a distinction in 2x3 film holders and, if so, which does an unmodified Miniature Speed Graphic take?

As a bonus question, is there a particular Grafmatic holder to look for or avoid?

Thanks in advance,
Adam
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well there 3 finds of cameras backs
#1 Graflex it takes the slotted kind
#2 Graphic (spring) back takes Standard two-sheet film holders
#3 Graflok takes Standard two-sheet film holders & or Roll film holders

in the 23 best as I can find Grafmatic holder are all the same
CAT # 1266 can work in both Graflex & or {Graphic//Graflok}
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is back #2 on your list, which indicates standard sheet holders (not the slotted kind). Good good.

It seems like it wouldn't be TOO hard to adapt one of these to take a roll film back similar to what Jo Lommen shows for a 4x5 camera on his site. It just means that you have to remove the back and put the spring back back on if you want to resume using sheet film/ground glass focusing.

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/page2.html

Thank you for your reply.

Adam
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a better way look at ebay Item number:320767630649
look at pic #3 & #4 its a suydam graphic 117R back kit #9
but you could make the adapters like that so it would be easer
to change back & forth this Busch is now mine when it gits here
I can get some more pics of the adapters
or you get an Adapt-a-roll 620 it gos in like a sheet film holder
I don't see any on ebay right now for 23 but this is Item number:
380371795775 TAMAR ADAPT A ROLL 620 INSTRUCTIONS you can
see what it looks like
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3232
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roll film holders come in two versions Graflex and Graphic. Both were available in two types, Knob wind and Lever wind.
The Grafmatics come in two versions, Graflex and Graphic.

Graflex: has a single slot along the left side of the base plate that mates with the raised edge of the camera back to form a light seal. Graflex holders have a slot along the edges of the holder for the Graflex bar and slide lock to fit into. Graflex holders are 1/16 to 3/32 wider than Graphic holders.

Graphic: also called standard film holders. They have two ribs on the left side of the holder base. The inner rib fits into a grove in the camera back and the other fits just over the outside of the camera back.

http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/Grafmatic23Service.pdf
lists different part numbers for both the cover and base plate for Graphic and Graflex holders.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_13.html
mentions the spring kit.

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_1.html
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just wasn't sure if we were talking about 2x3 graflex or 2x3 graphic holders. I have both types in 4x5.

Thanks for the links, 45PSS, and yes, 1banjo, I would love to see a few more pictures of that retention mechanism when you get the camera. I have a Miniature Speed Graphic also on its way and I am thinking of putting together something similar to what is pictured.

Thank you both for your help,

Adam
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3232
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All 3 formats, 2 1/4 x 3 1/3 aka 2x3; 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 aka 3x4; and 4x5. I do not know if grafmatics were made for 3x4 or not.
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
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Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never used a Grafmatic holder, but I can see pictures and a manual for them online. They just slam into place just like a standard 2-sided film holder, right? So they would be compatible then with either the spring back or the Graflok back, right?

Thanks for answering my questions, folks!
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes they just slide in on both Graphic back { any spring back} or the Graflok back AND ""graflex bcak""

BUT ONLY the 23 Grafmatic they ALSO work on the graflex

BUT there are two different kinds of 4x5 Grafmatic
#one for Graphic back { any spring back} or the Graflok back

#two for the 4x5 graflex back
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3232
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
BUT ONLY the 23 Grafmatic they ALSO work on the Graflex


Look at your Grafmatic film plane side. Does it have Ribs or a slot or both?

If it has ribs only it may fit into a Graflex back but it will not sit squarely with the back resulting in the equivalent of right side back swing. Because the Graflex is slightly wider the Graphic version will shift up or down or tilt.
The 1965 Grafmatic service manual shows different part numbers for the Graphic/Graflok and Graflex case. There may have been an earlier version that was a universal fit.

Also read page 1 section 1 paragraph 2.
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adamgarrickrobins



Joined: 02 Jul 2009
Posts: 38
Location: St. Johns, Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has a raised rib, and then a slot, and then another raised rib, just like the one at the bottom left of Jo Lommen's page here:

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/holders/index.html


I haven't purchased it, yet. I am trying to decide whether to go sheet film or adapt for a roll film holder.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"""it have Ribs & slot ""both"""
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NOW the 4x5 graflex is about 3/16" wider then the
Graphic / Graflok 4x5!!


BUT the 23 is the same size AND has both Ribs & slot
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OH and there are "some" Roll Film Holder that ALSO has both

Ribs & slot for 23 size

BUT only seen one like that!!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3232
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seemed to remember the RFH fitting both so I researched and this ad from 1949 confirms it:
http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/graflex_1.html
The Graflex version works in either the Graflex or Graflok back.
The Graphic/Graflok version works in the Graflok back only.

The dual fitting is the Graflex holder and it appears the same held true for the Grafmatic as well. Graflex RFH and Grafmatics are less common than the Graphic versions.
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