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Camera Date
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Ronrut B



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:15 pm    Post subject: Camera Date Reply with quote

Hello,
I have found a Graflex Pacemaker Crown Graphic Top Rangefinder on eBay, and I was wondering what date it is. The serial # is 140491. Also on top mounted range finders, cant you just put a different pair of infinity stops on it for the different lens mm's, instead of changing the cams?
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Ronrut B
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Sirius Glass



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Southern California & Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that you are reading the number wrong. 140xxx would be about 1923 or 1924. Pacemakers are in the range of 1947 to 1963 running from approximately 700xxx to 964xxx.

Please recheck the number.

Steve
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Ronrut B



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:16 am    Post subject: New Number Reply with quote

Does 840491 sound more reasonable?? Thanks!
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bartbob



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Camera Date Reply with quote

Ronrut B wrote:
Also on top mounted range finders, cant you just put a different pair of infinity stops on it for the different lens mm's, instead of changing the cams?
I don't think so.

The cam changes where the rangefinder's moving mirror moves to when a lens of different focal length moves on the rails. For a given distance, a 270mm lens will move twice as far forward from its infinity position to focus than a 135mm lens will. And that longer lens will start out 270mm from the film whereas the 135mm lens will start out half that much. But the moving mirror in the range finder will move the same amount to get coincidence with both lenses at that distance. Which means each focal length lens needs its own cam. Take a look at the cams in this link:

http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/MySuperCams2a.jpg

Note the one for a 90mm lens curves a lot more than the one for a 250mm one. That's because the rangefinder mirror has to move a different amount for a given amount of lens movement. The horizontal axis on the cams is relative to how far the lens moves out and in to focus. the vertical axis is how far the rangefinder mirror moves. Note the 250mm cam moves a long ways for a given amount of vertical on the curved part. The 90mm one moves more than half as much horizontally for the same amount of vertical change on the curved part. It's that curved part that contacts an arm in the rangefinder to move its mirror.

A diagram of that rangefinder is shown in:

http://graflex.org/articles/oakes/
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3231
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

820000-849999 4x5 Speed Graphic ; 950000-999999 4x5 Crown Graphic
allocation about 1950.

The bed has most likely been changed out at some point in time. The serial number plate is riveted to the bed so it would be very hard to swap it only. The camera looks nice but don't bid too much for it. $125-$150 would be top dollar IMO.

Cams were cut according to the lens measured focal length, not the printed focal length. Lens set to infinity for their focal length move forward from infinity different distances to achieve the same closer distance focus.
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Ronrut B



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 35
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Thanks! Reply with quote

Thanks for all of the info guys! You were a big help!
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Ronrut B
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Ronrut B



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
$125-$150 would be top dollar IMO.




I agree 45PSS. I don't get why they are selling them $300-$600, unless they are really nice! It makes me mad.....
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bartbob



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronrut B wrote:
I don't get why they are selling them $300-$600, unless they are really nice! It makes me mad.....
Note the price listed is what they want to sell items for. One only know what it actually sold for after bidding has ended and it's selling price is then listed.

Most photo equipment sellers on line don't know what fair and realistic prices are for used stuff or they're just plain greedy. Which is why it's a good idea to get opinions from decent folks (such as those using this forum) on vintage items. My opinion is most photo equipment sold online ends up selling for twice it's realistic value. Example: Graflex Riteway 4x5 film holders sometimes list for $30 or more each. I've got them for $5 each delivered.

However, if you pick your items desired carefully and bid correctly (in the last 5 seconds it's listed), you may get a good/fair deal.
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Ronrut B



Joined: 24 Aug 2010
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Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which is why it's a good idea to get opinions from decent folks
Were decent folks!!!!!! Well here is the camera I'm looking at buying. As long as it dosent go up any more I will get my dad to bid on it for me with his special program. Oh I do hope I get it!

Camera
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey

I agree It makes me mad !! TOO!!!!!
like this one !!Item number: 230572140076 GRAFLEX CROWN GRAPHIC SET GRAFLEX + CASE CAMERA
""THAT's not a Crown anyway"" its a gutted out Speed !!!
FOR ONLY US $669.00 Buy It Now

how about Item number: 230566501878 GRAFLEX CROWN GRAPHIC SET GRAFLEX + HARD CASE CAMERA
FOR ONLY US $739.00 Buy It Now

what's that about $400. to much or more

I have 3 Crowns 2 with top finders & 1 with a side SO I have not been looking at prices
maybe I should price mine up like that to sell
I thank that I don't have $500. total in all 3

banjo
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebay takes 10% of the sold price; paypal, their payment service, takes at least 5% of the dollar total regardless of whether it is purchase price or shipping charges so thats at least 15% off the top just to start.

The purpose of listing on ebay is to SELL, the purpose of shopping on ebay is to buy. If something is listed that you are willing to pay the BIN price for it then buy it, if not, move on; on auction items only bit the top price you are willing to pay.

I have no problem with the sellers that ask the sky for their items. Check the completed listings and you will find that they are only dreaming most the time.

Now who wants to pay me $1,000,000 for the information that I've been sharing freely, I'm broke and may list my stuff for the sky + the moon and sun.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1888
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
Ebay takes 10% of the sold price; paypal, their payment service, takes at least 5% of the dollar total regardless of whether it is purchase price or shipping charges so thats at least 15% off the top just to start. <snip>


Charles, you shouldn't shoot from the hip.

Per this http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fees.html eBay's maximum eBay's final value charge for auctions is $50. The higher the final price, the lower the rate. eBay -- see this: http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/fvf.html -- doesn't charge the seller for shipping charges.

PayPal's rates as given here https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside are also considerably lower than you claim.
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Sirius Glass



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 123
Location: Southern California & Virginia

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Dan Fromm"]
45PSS wrote:
Charles, you shouldn't shoot from the hip.


That is no fun! Beside he meant well ==> Buyer Beware!

Steve
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I included the domestic shipping in my ballpark figuring which is all ebay to me as what's left after the fees and shipping is what I get to spend as I see fit.
Item sold for $285 +15 shipping, total $300.
Ebay listing/final value fees $16.25 or 5.7% of the first $285.
Paypal fees on the total $9 or 3% of the $300.
Ebay companies total fees 8.7% (8.4% if fee totals added then figured on total $).
Shipping paypal took 3% for its fee so that 3% comes off the sell price. Shipping 5% of the total.
Total expense to sell the item 13.7% of the total, 1.3% off my original statement of 15%.
Dissect and bash as you wish.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, you shouldn't shoot from the hip. eBay's sliding scale means that large transactions pay proportionately less in fees than small ones. In addition, eBay frequently has listing sales during which listing charges are waived.

We can't generalize from the one sale you quoted to all others even if your arithmetic were correct.

Re your arithmetic, I can understand listing and final value charges, also PayPal charges on the total. After that you lost me. As I read what you wrote, eBay and PayPal charged you $24.25, including PayPal's fee for getting the shipping charges to you. This is less than 10% of the item's selling price.

Shipping charges are a cost paid, less the cost of collecting (PayPal, 3% of $15, $0.45 in your example), by your customer. They aren't and never were your money and shouldn't be attributed to eBay or PayPal.
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