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medalist ektar on crown 23
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 44
Location: tirana

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject: medalist ektar on crown 23 Reply with quote

The Century Graphic page (http://www.graflex.org/speed-graphic/century-graphic.html) says:

Quote:
The 100/3.5 Ektar from the Kodak Medalist is quite good, and can be used on a Centiry (sic) Graphic.


But as I understand it, the shutter used on the Medalist will not work as is on a graphic lensboard, because the linkages for cocking/firing are internal.

Can someone help me understand if it is in fact possible to use a 100mm Medalist Ektar on a 23 Century/Crown Graphic? If so, what is necessary? Would I need to get another shutter and simply remount the lens elements? If so, which version/lens of the supermatic shutter will accept the elements of the 100mm Ektar?

Many thanks!

Vitaly
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got a Supermatic shutter Service manual and while I can't take the time to scan it, I don't see anything in the back of the shutter that would preclude it from being used on a flat board. I"m not sure what the results would be if you moved the cells into another shutter. Kodak was notorious for using odd ball threads and a pair of 100mm cells may not fit in a Supermatic that had 100mm f4.5 cells or even a standard No 2 Super that had 127mm cells in it. At least without a trip to the machinist

If you go the switched shutter route, you'll have to re scale the aperture.
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 44
Location: tirana

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Medalist shutter linkages are on the backside of the shutter. While there is a cable release on the front side, cocking the shutter is done from the back of the lens.

Yes, I suppose it would be possible to mount the Medalist shutter on a flat board as is, then remove the lens/board to cock the shutter for each and every exposure. Not forgetting to insert/remove the darkslide each time also, of course!

But is there a more convenient arrangement?

Many thanks,

Vitaly
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
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Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, buying a 105mm f 3/5 Ektar, but that's missing the point I think.
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les wrote:
yeah, buying a 105mm f 3/5 Ektar, but that's missing the point I think.


Right, the 105mm f/3.7 Ektar is an extremely rare (and expensive!) bird.

On the other hand, Kodak Medalists come up quite frequently. If there were some way of putting that Ektar onto a CG23, it would be far more useful and interesting than on the original camera.

Vitaly
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That lens has too much value to risk destoying the shutter. If you don't have the Medalist camera, I would suggest selling that lens and finding a 105/3.7 for your Century. The 105/3.7 is a Heliar type and highly regarded. Personally, I prefer the 101/4.5 Ektar as a standard lens and the 127/4.7 as a slightly long lens. Both stellar performers.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
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Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vitaly, for what its worth I have a 101/4.5 Ektar, as does Glenn, a 103/4.5 Graftar, and a 105/3.7 Ektar. The 105/3.7 is the second I've had; I sold the first one because it was so much less sharp than the 101/4.5. My second 105 is also worse than the 101; not as sharp at any aperture from f/4.5 down and less coverage, i.e., worse in the corners than the 101. I don't like to admit it since I don't use the lens, but the 103/4.5 Graftar is the best of the three.

There are better normal lenses for 2x3. The one I shoot now is a 105/5.6 Beryl Saphir BX. It was sold as an enlarging lens, but according to a friend who has some of Boyer's archives was made to the same prescription as the Zircon, which was sold as a taking lens. As for the Zircon, think, more or less Symmar-S. I recently retired a 4"/2.0 Taylor Hobson and the 101/4.5 Ektar in favor of using the Saphir BX. I don't need apertures faster than f/5.6 and from f/5.6 down the BX is at least as good as the other two, sometimes better.

I take that you have a 100/3.5 Ektar and want to put it to use. I have that disease too.

Cheers,

Dan
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

glennfromwy wrote:
That lens has too much value to risk destoying the shutter. If you don't have the Medalist camera, I would suggest selling that lens and finding a 105/3.7 for your Century. The 105/3.7 is a Heliar type and highly regarded. Personally, I prefer the 101/4.5 Ektar as a standard lens and the 127/4.7 as a slightly long lens. Both stellar performers.


The last 105mm f/3.7 Ektar I saw come up went for more that 3x the average price of a Medalist.

On the other hand, Medalists come up very often, some inop as far as their body parts go. It would be a great way to get into a Heliar-type lens for the Crown23.

If it were possible....

Many thanks.

Vitaly
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey all
the 100mm Ektar that I just now took off of my Medalist can be used in the same shutter
as my Wollensak 8" f5.6 Raptar Telephoto lens !! looks like its a 31.5mm th.
a Rapax I don't know what size its!
banjo
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
Vitaly, for what its worth I have a 101/4.5 Ektar, as does Glenn, a 103/4.5 Graftar, and a 105/3.7 Ektar. The 105/3.7 is the second I've had; I sold the first one because it was so much less sharp than the 101/4.5. My second 105 is also worse than the 101; not as sharp at any aperture from f/4.5 down and less coverage, i.e., worse in the corners than the 101. I don't like to admit it since I don't use the lens, but the 103/4.5 Graftar is the best of the three.

There are better normal lenses for 2x3...


Well I do happen to have the 105mm/3.7 and consider myself quite fortunate:



This lens has an extraordinary character, quite unlike anything else I have. For the kinds of places I've been working, I would like to have another.

Many thanks,

Vitaly
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 44
Location: tirana

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1banjo wrote:
the 100mm Ektar that I just now took off of my Medalist can be used in the same shutter as my Wollensak 8" f5.6 Raptar Telephoto lens !! looks like its a 31.5mm th.
a Rapax I don't know what size its!
banjo


That's a great bit of help, banjo! Thanks for the info!

Vitaly
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey all
it looks like at f3.5 that it will be a soft focus sharp in the center but not at the ege

banjo
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey all
it works better on my flash supermatic /or my supermatic X by Kodak
with Ektar 127mm
banjo
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1banjo wrote:
hey all
it works better on my flash supermatic /or my supermatic X by Kodak
with Ektar 127mm
banjo


Beautiful! That's exactly what I was hoping to hear!

Many thanks!

Vitaly
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vitaly66



Joined: 08 Apr 2009
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Location: tirana

PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: update Reply with quote

Since the last post I managed to acquire a Supermatic #2 shutter and an inop Medalist I (EE/1944) for the project.

The lens cells from the Medalist Ektar do indeed thread into the Supermatic #2. Unfortunately, the rear internal threads of the Medalist shutter body are machined in such a way that the rear elements seat about 1.5mm deeper than in the shutter I intended using.

My guess is that I'm screwed. Although central image focused on GG appears sweet and sharp, off-axis is noticeably soft.

Short of some very expensive custom machine work on the shutter, at this point I would suggest there is no practical way of adapting the Medalist lens for use on a Graflex.

In the meantime, I'll try the lens with some film and low expectations, maybe get something like a reversed lens on a Brownie Hawkeye Flash...

Vitaly
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