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Focal plane shutter rubbing on the body, preventing motion

 
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject: Focal plane shutter rubbing on the body, preventing motion Reply with quote

My shutter currently works on all speeds excepting T. Only the first stage of T works, so that the shutter is left stranded with the film exposed; it won't close again after the first stage.

Well I took it apart last night, and more or less, everything is in order. The problem isn't with the shutter itself.

The shutter curtain rolls up on the bottom roller. So you can imagine that for the "T" exposure, which is the last one, the bottom roller is about as big around as it is going to get. The reason T doesn't work is that the bottom roller, with the fabric wrapped around it, rubs against the metal camera body right below the bellows. It just barely touches the metal as it rolls around, and a slight nudge with a finger will send it the rest of the way round.

This is curious to me because I don't understand why a problem like this would crop up suddenly. The curtain appears to be fine, the bearings appear to be free and unworn. Perhaps it's winter now and the camera body is shrinking?

In any case, the only way I can see to fix it would be to move the lower roller down, to grind away the metal body or pound it in, or to lubricate the shutter and/or metal body so that the shutter doesn't stick when it touches. It only touches very gently, but the rubberized fabric has a lot of friction with the smooth metal. Graphite? Would Armor All hurt the shutter material? I know Armor All is very slippery; I accidentally put it on my motorcycle seat once.
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 356
Location: North East Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something to check out since the problem started suddenly. Has something stuck to the shutter curtain causing it to roll up larger on the take up roller?

C. Henry
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't see anything, but perhaps I should check the inside (lens side) of the shutter more carefully. If I don't find anything, I think I'll break out the armor-all or plastic polish.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1881
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check carefully whether the roller is properly in its bearing.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3198
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throw the Armorall in the trash and go get a can of Pledge funiture polish. Coat the entire curtain with a moderate coat of Pledge, let it sit for 15 to 30 minutes, then wipe off the excess while supporting the curtain. Retest once the curtain is fully dry.
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking about pledge as well. I think I'll only apply it to the very end, though, where it's contacting the camera slightly. I 'm worring about the polish leaving a residue that will pick up dust.

I checked the bottom roller and it seems to be fine, as far as the bearings go. It could be this particular camera has one or both of the bearing seats drilled in the side of the body slightly higher than spec.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3198
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't. The lemon oil and bees wax soften the curtain and actuall help it repell dust. I have treated several FPS and never had a dust problem afterwards.

The curtain material will swell with age if allowed to dry out due to poor storage or no maintance. You may need to pack the curtain also. To pack set the tension to highest setting, wind to smallest slot and trip/run shutter to largest slot 10 to 20 times.
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[img] You may need to pack the curtain also. To pack set the tension to highest setting, wind to smallest slot and trip/run shutter to largest slot 10 to 20 times.[/img]

I'm not not sure what this accomplishes. First of all, what do you mean by "set tension to highest setting"? Do you mean disassemble the shutter and wind the spring more? There is no tension adjustment on my Pacemaker, only a governor that can be engaged. And I run the shutter through all the settings nearly every time I use the camera.

I will definitely try the lemon pledge, though. I should put some on my bellows too.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3198
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The packing is from the Graflex SLR instructions where you have a tension knob that runs from 1 to 5 or 6. The same shutter is used in the Speed Graphics up thru the Anniversary Speed. On the Pacemaker set the tension lever to high, governor disengaged. This results in the curtain being wound tight on the lower roller as opposed to wound loosely from using on one or two speed setting routinely or use on the low speed settings over a long period of time. Just a thought it might help.

The Pledge works wonderfully on the bellows also. I have used it on leather bellows of other makes of cameras with great success.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1881
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go here http://www.southbristolviews.com/ , click on Graflex Manuals, download the Top RF Pacemaker Manual (http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/servicemanual.pdf ), read it. Especially the section on reinstallation of the FPS. Tension is adjustable, but not with the camera fully assembled.
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awldune



Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Posts: 21
Location: NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you remove the back from the camera, you should see two black metal guides that the curtain moves over. These are held in place by blocks, with two flathead screws in each.

The guides are U-shaped in cross-section and actually quite thin, so if you remove them you can easily pinch the open end of the U so they won't obstruct the rollers.

That should take care of your problem without you having to remove the shutter cover or release the spring tension.

I would advise you not to mess with the tension if your shutter speeds are correct. It is difficult to get them back into calibration if you don't have a shutter tester.
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you remove the back from the camera, you should see two black metal guides that the curtain moves over. These are held in place by blocks, with two flathead screws in each.

The guides are U-shaped in cross-section and actually quite thin, so if you remove them you can easily pinch the open end of the U so they won't obstruct the rollers.


I took the back off the camera again and I saw those metal upside-down-u shaped guides you were talking about. But the shutter isn't rubbing against them. The place where the lower roller contacts the camera is below (toward the front from) the metal u-shaped guide. It's the black metal part just under the bellows and just forward of said metal guides, with the camera in a normal orientation.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3198
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem you are having is caused by:
The roller bearings being dirty/sticking due to dried lubricant;
Miswound curtain;
Dried out curtain material.

Previous discussion has covered the latter.
South Bristol Views has a problem not allowing some computers to download the downloable information/manuals. I'm currently on the only computer in a multicomputer household that can access the manuals there.

FPS Service Instructions is the service instructions from a side rf pacemaker service manual and the one on SBV is a top rf service manual. The instructions are the same except for the wording in the adjustment of the tension spring. The jpegs are approximately 25kb each and should print out nicely, scale to fit page in print software.

Read the complete servicing procedure before attempting to service the shutter. I am a very high level technician and find the shutter to be a piece of cake. If you have only average mechanical skills then the shutter will be a challenge due to the small parts. Do not go beyond your abilities. Cleaning the roller ends and lubricating the bearing caps will solve the majority of problems with FPS. DO NOT adjust the spring tension prior to cleaning and lubricating the moving parts.

Warning: The shutter curtain is very easily torn if the shutter is operated with the camera back removed.
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BetterSense



Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Posts: 18
Location: Dallas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last night, without disassembling the shutter, I took the back off and treated the whole curtain with lemon pledge. Besides cleaning a lot of dirt off the curtain and leaving it looking and smelling nice, I think the problem has gone away. If the roller is still contacting the camera body, it is able to slide past. because T works now. If it acts up in the future, I think I will try adding a slight amount of spring tension to the lower roller, because there is hardly any tension left as it gets near the end of the travel. I suppose adding a half-turn or something would regain a small bit of tension at the end of the curtain while not significantly affecting the higher speeds,
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3198
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before adding any spring tension clean and lube the roller bushings.
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