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lens/ shutter thread size
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:47 am    Post subject: lens/ shutter thread size Reply with quote

Does anyone know if a 101 Ektar that is in a Rapid 800 shutter will screw into a Flash Supermatic shutter? Thanks.

Dave
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 101mm Ektar f~4.5 should fit either one. They probably just modified the rim set, spring, and faceplate to accomodate the 1/800 shutter speed. I doubt they re-tooled the cover plate which the front lens group threads into or the front group threads. Very little changed over the years with regards the Supermatics.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, there's more than one size of Flash Supermatic. You need the right size.
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dan,
Did I forget to reference the little #1?
I think the elements might fall thru a #3.
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How does one tell what size Supermatic shutter one has? My Flash Supermatic currently has an Ektar 101 f=4.5 in it mounted on a 2 x 3 pacemaker Speed Graphic lensboard. It has front element glass that looks like it was cleaned with a Brillo pad. I ordered an Ektar in a rapid 800 shutter just a couple of days ago (cost less than I could find in a Supermatic shutter). I'm hoping the lens will fit in my Supermatic. Its a great working shutter. I'll feel pretty bummed if it don't.

Dave
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troublemaker



Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 715
Location: So Cal

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, which is limited, there has only been one 101mm Ektar, the early uncoated versions, found mostly on the older Pacemaker 23 Crowns and Speeds, and the older mini-Speeds. And then there are the later single coated "luminized" versions of the same lens also found on the same cameras, and also the Century Graphics. Perhaps the Rapid 800 shutter works even better than the one you have now? Or do you know it is faulty?
The #1 Supermatic shutters usually house the 101mm Ektar, but I think one can also find the classic 100mm WF Ektar 4x5 wide angle lens mounted in them. The Rapid is rapid because it has the addition of the 1/800 speed, and should be a modified #1 Flash Supermatic, so it should be almost exactly the same as the #1 your current 101 is mounted in. The elements should fit nicely. I doubt they'd re-tool the threading.
The #2 is most commonly found with the 127 EKtar and the famed 203 7.7 Ektar. But certainly not limited to these lenses. I have an early Supermatic with the 127 Wollensak Velostigmat. A very nice lens. The #2 fits nicely and dominates a 2x3 lens board thought thereis plenty of room to close and opperate the camera.
The #3 housed the larger normal lenses like the 6-3/8" Kodak Anastigmat and 152 Ektar. A much larger shutter.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hurdy_gurdyman wrote:
How does one tell what size Supermatic shutter one has? My Flash Supermatic currently has an Ektar 101 f=4.5 in it mounted on a 2 x 3 pacemaker Speed Graphic lensboard. It has front element glass that looks like it was cleaned with a Brillo pad. I ordered an Ektar in a rapid 800 shutter just a couple of days ago (cost less than I could find in a Supermatic shutter). I'm hoping the lens will fit in my Supermatic. Its a great working shutter. I'll feel pretty bummed if it don't.

Dave
You're set.

Good luck, have fun, they're good lenses,

Dan
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan Fromm wrote:
You're set.

Good luck, have fun, they're good lenses,

Dan
Thanks Dan. I know they're good. I owned one in the Supermatic shutter back in the early 80's on my 2 x 3 Pacemaker. Took fantastic pictures. I've kicked myself many times for selling that camera back then. Old age, nostalgia and an urge to start doing more photography is making me itch to get the same system up and going again. Always loved the Speed Graphics, which are the cameras I learned photography on. Have owned four different ones so far, but down to just this one now.

An-tic-i-pa-a-a-a-tion....

Dave
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

troublemaker wrote:
As far as I know, which is limited, there has only been one 101mm Ektar, the early uncoated versions, found mostly on the older Pacemaker 23 Crowns and Speeds, and the older mini-Speeds. And then there are the later single coated "luminized" versions of the same lens also found on the same cameras, and also the Century Graphics. Perhaps the Rapid 800 shutter works even better than the one you have now? Or do you know it is faulty?
The #1 Supermatic shutters usually house the 101mm Ektar, but I think one can also find the classic 100mm WF Ektar 4x5 wide angle lens mounted in them. The Rapid is rapid because it has the addition of the 1/800 speed, and should be a modified #1 Flash Supermatic, so it should be almost exactly the same as the #1 your current 101 is mounted in. The elements should fit nicely. I doubt they'd re-tool the threading.
The #2 is most commonly found with the 127 EKtar and the famed 203 7.7 Ektar. But certainly not limited to these lenses. I have an early Supermatic with the 127 Wollensak Velostigmat. A very nice lens. The #2 fits nicely and dominates a 2x3 lens board thought thereis plenty of room to close and opperate the camera.
The #3 housed the larger normal lenses like the 6-3/8" Kodak Anastigmat and 152 Ektar. A much larger shutter.
Thanks for the info. Interesting read.
I've read that many folks consider the Rapid 800 to be fragile and somewhat unreliable. I own one on a Kodak Tourist with Anastar lens. It works well, but haven't used it enough to know about long term endurance. One thing that bugs me, though, is that the flash fires every time the shutter is cocked. I use lots of fill flash, so it wears batteries down faster. Just an irritation. The Flash Supermatic doesn't have this problem.

Dave
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, this has been a day for learning. My Ektar in the Rapid 800 Shutter came today. First off, I got lucky. The lens is even better than the description. A modest cleaning and it looks almost new. Not a scratch or sign of fungus on it. I'm rather glad I was outbid on just the glass a few days ago on another auction. The shutter is good, too. The only problem is that the flash PC doesn't work. Easy to switch to my other Rapid 800, though, which does work. I'll stick my 101 Anastar on this shutter for a spare.

Now the bad news. I think we all need to study the ole' Rapid 800 a bit more. The two do not have interchangeable lenses. The threads are just slightly wider diameter on the Rapid 800 than on the Flash Supermatic. The lens from the Rapid 800 won't start in the Supermatic, and the lens from the Supermatic just drops through the threads on the Rapid 800. Also, on close examination, the two shutters are not similar, and I don't believe share a common beginning. The Rapid 800 has an additional two piece blade behind the main shutter blades that open and shut. Also, the main shutter blades have one set showing when you cock the shutter and another set after the shutter is fired. Very complex, much more so than the Supermatic! Know wonder these have a reputation for being fragile! Could this shutter be similar to the Super Graphic 1000 shutter with rotary blades?

Someday I'll get some glass that will fit my Supermatic shutter. In the meantime, as long as it holds up, I'll use the Ektar in the Rapid 800 shutter and suffer with the flash firing every time I cock the shutter.

Dave
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1427
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know absolutely nothing about Supermatic shutters, so take this FWIW. I have the same shutter-cock-flash problem on one of my Graphex shutters. I'm reasonably sure that something in the synchronizer mechanism is amiss; the usual culprits are the contact blades out of alignment, bent, too close together, etc., to resolve any or all of which requires a level one tear-down on the Graphex, i.e., removal of lens elements, face plate, backing plate, and synch. cover---not a terrifically hard job, I've done it a couple or three times on my other shutters and gotten them all back together and working again. If you decide to go this route, rather than send out the shutter to somebody such as www.flutotscamerarepair.com , then I strongly recommend that you have the Supermatic repair manual at hand, available (item #90518) from http://www.photobooksonline.com/books/shutter.html . It costs $40, but it's a good investment if you anticipate DIY shutter repairs.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who made the Rapid 800 shutter?
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1427
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The repair manual cited in my previous post (see link) says "Synchro-Rapid 800," which maybe implies Synchro Compur? But basically I don't know.
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hurdy_gurdyman



Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Location: Central Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can find on the shutter is: T.M. U.S. PAT. OFF. MADE IN U.S.A.

Doesn't tell us a lot...

Dave
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry wrote:
The repair manual cited in my previous post (see link) says "Synchro-Rapid 800," which maybe implies Synchro Compur? But basically I don't know.
No, the Synchro-Rapid 800 is an EKCo product.
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