Graflex.org

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

Hi all,

I have recently bought a Crown Graphic that's in quite nice condition complete with working and contrasty rangefinder and all. Only problem with the camera is that the 'T' speed doesn't work right; it opens when firing the shutter but won't close the same way. I have to turn the speed ring to get it to snap shut. All the other speeds work fine and actually sound/look like they're relatively accurate down to the one second setting...

Since I am fairly clueless about these shutters I am tempted to send it off to Carol Miller for a CLAC ($50), but her turnaround time is 4-10 weeks at the moment. So unless somebody tells me it's probably an easy fix (I have repaired simpler stuff on 35mm and medium format before, so have at least a bit of experience), I might send it off and try and find a spare shutter to use until it returns. Any idea where I could find a shutter by itself or one with some bad lens elements? It's a 135/4.7 Wollensak made lens...

Thanks all!

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2120 Location: New Jersey

Um, at even odds if you send the lens out today it will be back from Carol before you'll find another better shutter.

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

I was just hoping for something to tide me over while I wait.

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2120 Location: New Jersey

As you've just learned, buying used equipment is a crapshoot.

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

Dan,

With all due respect, this isn't something I've "just learned". I've been buying used camera gear for the past decade, and am well aware of the pitfalls and when you're taking a chance on something. If I wanted to gamble on a shutter I'd just go find one on ebay and end up with god knows what as you point out. The Crown Graphic I purchased as-is because the price was outstanding and I was willing to deal with some minor niggles such as this because of it. Everything being in excellent shape with the T mode on the shutter being the one exception was more than I expected!

When it comes to my 35mm gear and medium format gear there are plenty of places I know to go and get used equipment from trusted sources/people. I usually like to purchase via certain camera forums since the seller/member often has some history and member feedback and you can purchase with a fair chance of getting what you expected. However, this being the first large format rig I've used in a decade I have no clue where I could go looking; neither the large format forum nor this one seem to have classifieds. Maybe what I'm looking for just isn't around in the LF/Graflex world but I figured it certainly would not hurt to ask.

All I was looking for is a working condition shutter or assembly with bad glass that I could use for a while and then pass on to somebody else once mine comes back from repair.

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Hard to say without having the shutter in hand, but often it is only the front release and or the solonoid linkage can prevent the release lever from returning all the way so that when the release is depressed again it does not close the shutter. It''s worth a try anways; try removingthe lens and board, and then try cocking, and release at T. If theshutter wont close push the release lever back and trip again. IF it still doesn't work the shutter is probably just gunked up with old dirt. The Graphex #2 shutter ussually just needs a good cleaning and reassembly anyway.

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

troublemaker: thanks! I will take a look at that when I get home.

sobahguy · Joined: 09 Oct 2001 Posts: 173 Location: Massachusetts

Hi cmedin...What troublemaker suggests is a very good idea...
Take the lensboard off the front standard (thereby getting it away from the body release "paddle") and disconnect the small solenoid hook from the shutter trip lever...once free of these encumbrances the "T" setting may work fine. Unless, as TM states, the shutter is in need of a CLA.
CLA may be the way to go when your funds and/or time permits and Fred Lustig is the best bet for a job well done. Fred has ALL the expertise and parts needed for Graphex/Rapax shutters, which makes him the go-to guy for repairs of these things. He has done an outstanding job on several for me in the past. Good Luck!!!
SG

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

I'll be sure to report back after testing this out. Hoping to get it working for now since I'd hate to be without it for a month or two. Have plenty of other gear (some screwmount Leicas, RB67, GA645, C330..) but this is my only LF rig.

Henry · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:03 pm Post subject:

I have not had good luck with Fred's shutter repair attempts, I'm sorry to say. If I were you, cmedin, I'd try what trouble and sobah recommend, as well as a Ronsonol squirt (with lens elements removed, of course). If that cures it, you're A-OK; otherwise you could add fine powdered graphite to the Ronsonol in a small squirt bottle and apply as before. Try to keep the Ronsonol out of the synchronizer, as it's a solvent and there are little adhesive-backed insulator strips in there that you do not want to dislodge; similarly, keep graphite away from electrical contacts as it's a conductor and may cause short circuits. If these remedies fail, I agree with Dan: send it to Carol.

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Four weeks? the #2 Graphex requires about two hours to carefully dissassemble clean and reassemble. If it was working good before and is only suffering from the usual gunking and dirty old lubes. There can also be issues relating to folks having got inside the shutter in the past and unable to properly ressemble them. Ex: Lost one of the proper T lever springs and tried to make do with what they had, tried to fabricate a spring, or it may just be off its seat, but I think B may not function properly either. I've seen all these and more. More likely, the T lever is hanging up because of too much lube or gunk, or it could be bent (they are soft plated brass), which is all fairly easy to check. The seat where the T lever rests and holds the main drive mechanism in the shutter open position has a rather small margin of useable area, but sol ong as no one tried to file it I doubt the end of the lever is an issue. Probably you'll go home and discover the release lever just needs a bit more slack from the relases cable paddle. But based on gunking of internal parts, the return spring on the release lever assembly probably can't work as well as it could were it cleaned and lubed.
How's that for too much information?

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

No such thing as too much information.

Far as I know, this camera had been sitting around for ~30 years when I bought it. I honestly wasn't expecting much (and the price wasn't much), but the bellows are fine, the glass is crystal clear, the rangefinder nice and crisp, and everything mechanical seems to work short of this one issue.

I have taken apart and fixed 35mm and MF gear before, so I am not a stranger to fiddling with small things, just never touched a LF shutter mechanism. If needed I'll at least pop the cover and take a peek inside, then if it looks too difficult for me button it back up and send it off.

45PSS · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:25 pm Post subject:

Quit dilly dallying around, go to http://www.craigcamera.com/ and order
#90026. CraigCamera Reprint: GRAFLEX GRAPHEX SHUTTERS (1,2,3) 38pp, fully illustrated. Complete trouble shooting, disassembly, repair and reassembly. Valuable source, from Graflex original. $15.00
and you'll have it in a few days and while you are waiting on it to arrive go to the store and get some Electronic Contact Cleaner that is safe on plastics and leaves no residue (Radio Shack's over priced and questionable on plastics) and a can of 3in1 machine oil or TiFlow or simular precision machine oil and some white lithium grease and you'll have the shutter running like new 2 to 3 hours after you start and for half the cost of Carol's and a whole lot quicker.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

Henry · Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:25 pm Post subject:

Alas, the Graflex Graphex manual may not be much help to him; while it's got great exploded diagrams and instructions for disassembly/assembly, it's very weak in the troubleshooting area, in my experience. I agree that it's indispensible for doing any kind of Graphex shutter tear-down, but as to whether it will help diagnose a problem---well, that's another matter.

I would caution against 3-in-1 Oil. It's too thick, IMO, and what is needed is something like Labelle no. 1 (hobby shop item) or Wahl Clipper Oil (barber supply). Either one will give superior results.

cmedin · Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 10

45PSS: Would that be this manual?
http://www.southbristolviews.com/pics/Graphic/manual-pdf/GraphexShutterService.pdf

If you think somebody with relatively limited experience could handle this, I'd be more than willing to give it a go.