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Any interest in 6x9cm (2"x3") film?

 
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R_J



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I embarrass myself writing off to a manufacturer to ask if they will reconsider making 2x3" negative film, I thought I'd ask if there is any interest on this forum.

There are considerable advantages and disadvantages to using single sheet cut 6x9cm format film:

Advantages:

1. Sheet film has a much thicker base than 120 roll film. It doesn't coil, curl or spring around the darkroom with shifts in humidity or on drying.

2. A completely flat 6x9cm negative is easier to scan digitally as well as print than a 120 roll film cut frame. It is also less prone to development problems, being a plane parallel surface (hope I'm right on this one).

3. Each sheet film can be exposed and developed independently from another. For instance, many photographers are in the habit of shooting identical frames and exposures on two separate sheets. The first sheet can be developed normally and then inspected. Any shift in development (either pull or pushing, or even switching developer) can then be applied with the first proof as a reference point. This invariably improves the quality of negative development by fine tuning. 120 roll film format does not afford this degree of control.

4. A 6x9cm Graflok back holds 6 frames. A roll of 120 roll film only shoots 8 frames, on the condition that the roll film back doesn't cause overlapping, misloaded starting points etc. Some films such as Adox 25 also are very light sensitive, and fog even in subdued daylight, necessitating changing bag loading. A Graflokk takes up about 75% size of a 120 roll film back. Perhaps roll-film isn't as convenient for this particular format?

The disadvantages:

well, perhaps I'll leave those for now.

One of the main ones is the extreme limitation in available emulsions (no infrared or orthochromatic emulsions...)

Kind regards.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1889
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2006-05-28 07:57, R_J wrote:
Before I embarrass myself writing off to a manufacturer to ask if they will reconsider making 2x3" negative film, I thought I'd ask if there is any interest on this forum.

There are considerable advantages and disadvantages to using single sheet cut 6x9cm format film:

Advantages:

1. Sheet film has a much thicker base than 120 roll film. It doesn't coil, curl or spring around the darkroom with shifts in humidity or on drying.

2. A completely flat 6x9cm negative is easier to scan digitally as well as print than a 120 roll film cut frame. It is also less prone to development problems, being a plane parallel surface (hope I'm right on this one).

3. Each sheet film can be exposed and developed independently from another. For instance, many photographers are in the habit of shooting identical frames and exposures on two separate sheets. The first sheet can be developed normally and then inspected. Any shift in development (either pull or pushing, or even switching developer) can then be applied with the first proof as a reference point. This invariably improves the quality of negative development by fine tuning. 120 roll film format does not afford this degree of control.

4. A 6x9cm Graflok back holds 6 frames. A roll of 120 roll film only shoots 8 frames, on the condition that the roll film back doesn't cause overlapping, misloaded starting points etc. Some films such as Adox 25 also are very light sensitive, and fog even in subdued daylight, necessitating changing bag loading. A Graflokk takes up about 75% size of a 120 roll film back. Perhaps roll-film isn't as convenient for this particular format?

The disadvantages:

well, perhaps I'll leave those for now.

One of the main ones is the extreme limitation in available emulsions (no infrared or orthochromatic emulsions...)

Kind regards.
RJ, chacun a son gout. As I think you know, I use Adapt-A-Roll 620 roll holders which are more compact than Graflex' roll holders.

Still and all, its not entirely a bad idea. Before bugging manufacturers, you might want to ask J&C how much they'll charge to cut sheet film in larger formats down to 2x3. Also float your question on http://www.apug.org, I have the impression that there's not a huge overlap between APUG's readers and graflex.org's.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan
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R_J



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Are you getting reasonable-perfect film flatness with the 620 roll holders?

One disadvantage (or advantage) I have is being outside of the States, where J&C are based. There is a much smaller critical mass in 6x9cm sheet film photography and American photographers are unlikely to jump at paying the higher European costs of niche film formats.

I thought I might try asking one small manufacturer (Lupus). If that fails, then I'll resolve to do what I set out to do in February and cut my own.

I'm afraid the style and personalities on Apug forum can be too much of a deterrent. It's not the kind of forum I enjoy.

Thanks for your help again.

Kind regards,

RJ
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Rangemaster



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 412
Location: Montana, Glacier National Park

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember right, there has been some discussion on Apug from Simon at illford about this format, he coresponds on apug all the time addressing film format issues, it might be worth your time to ask him directly, I know you can contact him through there..

Dave

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David A. Goldfarb



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 142
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2006 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I buy my 2x3 sheet film from J&C, but if you're in Europe, you should be able to order it from fotoimpex.de. It's a standard item--not special order. They have a few different emulsions. Even if it is not on the fotoimpex website, e-mail Mirko, and he should be able to get it.

Some Europeans still purchase from J&C to avoid the VAT.

[ This Message was edited by: David A. Goldfarb on 2006-05-28 10:48 ]
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1889
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2006-05-28 09:37, R_J wrote:
Hi Dan,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Are you getting reasonable-perfect film flatness with the 620 roll holders?

One disadvantage (or advantage) I have is being outside of the States, where J&C are based. There is a much smaller critical mass in 6x9cm sheet film photography and American photographers are unlikely to jump at paying the higher European costs of niche film formats.

I thought I might try asking one small manufacturer (Lupus). If that fails, then I'll resolve to do what I set out to do in February and cut my own.

I'm afraid the style and personalities on Apug forum can be too much of a deterrent. It's not the kind of forum I enjoy.

Thanks for your help again.

Kind regards,

RJ
RJ, there are two flavors of AAR 620. The original, in which the film is taken up rolled inside out, and modified, in which the film is taken up inside in. In the modified ones, the film turns a sharp corner as it passes the end of the gate and moves towards the take-up spool. In the originals, it goes straight across the front until it is past at least the take-up spool's core.

I have the impression that I sometimes get a little buckle at the take-up end of my modified AAR. Otherwise, and especially with the originals, no complaints.

Cheers,

Dan
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R_J



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 137
Location: Europe

PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, David and Dan,

Many thanks for your thoughts. 40 views but not much interest. Guess this is a lost cause.......?

Here's the emulsions I can find:

Adox CHS 50 ISO
2x3 inches 50 Sheets

Classic Pan 200 2x3 inch 25sh

Does anyone else know of any other?
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David A. Goldfarb



Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 142
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2006 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J&C lists HP5+, J&C (Classic Pan) 200, Efke/Adox 25, and Efke/Adox 100. You should be able to get those all through fotoimpex.de with the possible exception of HP5+, but it may be a special order. Efke/Adox 100 is a really beautiful film, by the way, though a little fragile if you are tray processing.
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pv17vv



Joined: 22 Dec 2001
Posts: 255
Location: The Ardennes, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See current b&w film and paper availablility on http://www.darkroomagic.com/temp/Current%26Original.pdf
Also an interesting list of links here : http://www.darkroomagic.com/Library/library.htm
From Ralph W Lambrecht's page, he's from Cologne, Germany.
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ilford HP-5+ is a stock item that should be available anywhere Ilford professional films and chemicals are sold. Now, if we could just get them to package FP-4 in 6X9.......

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paxety



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 69
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I emailed Simon at Ilford about the possibility of getting FP4+ cut to 2x3 in next year's special order through JandC and his response was that he looks forward to seeing my order. I assume that means Ilford is willing and able to cut the film to that size.

HP5+ has been available as a stock item for years - at least in the US. I would think it would be the same in Europe.

I use almost nothing but sheet film in my Miniature Speed Graphic and my Mamiya RB67 - for all of the reasons listed above.
juan
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Jim23



Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 128
Location: US/Greater Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ilford did have FP4 in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheets until 2001 here in the US. Upon discontinuance, I contacted them and they indicated that very similar results could be had with HP5 by fine-grain processing - I took their advice and switched. I develop HP5 (at ISO 250) in Perceptol for 14.5 minutes (68F) in hangers (one minute between agitation lift-left, drain, lift right in less than 10 sec.).
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