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Super Graphic Y-cord?

 
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just recieved a Super Graphic Y-cord from Ritz.... It was supposed to work....

Anyway, it just sparked my curiosity...

My assumption is that this cord is simply a straight wired connection from pin to socket. Is that correct? Or is there something 'special' inside any of the molded plugs?

This one has absolutely no continuity from any pin to any pin/plug. And I don't know why I bothered, but it also doesn't fire the flash o the camera...

So before I try for a refund, or eat it as a "collectible", I just thought I'd ask if anyone had personal experience at looking at the inside of one of these cords...
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3207
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 21:47 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2005 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll double-check it again later. I don't know how I could get it wrong? Seems there would have to be some continuity between at leat one set of pins...

I know the camera and socket are good because I have a home made cable in there now. Which should indicate that I know the wiring... But sometimes the simplest thing is the easiest the screw up...

I've already heard back from Ritz. They'll of course take it back, but he said he tested the cable a month ago when he got it. Justr seems odd to me that all the connections are bad, so maybe I did something wrong? So I'll let it sit, then look at it again later... I just hate to lose something after I've got it in my hands... But this design cable is deffinitely not repairable, in any cosmetic sense anyway. All moulded plugs.....

Thanks...


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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, double, triple and quadruple checked...

I pulled out my tone tracer. Got tone all the way from the pins to the "Shutter/Remote" splitter. Got tone through the Remote cable, but loses it at the plug. Don't really get tone through the Shutter cable. But there I deffinitely get scratchy 'broken wire' type noises... The cable is deffinitely bad...

Now I just have to talk myself out of keeping it and splitting open the Y junction plug to re-wire it all.....


Hmmm... Anyone know where I could find that old type rubber coated round wire???


[ This Message was edited by: RichS on 2005-03-22 21:25 ]
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fotch



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Lake Geneva, WI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have several of these cords, all brand new. I will check these to see what the connections are. If the one you have is defective and you still need one, let me know. May I ask what they cost? Thanks
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2005-03-24 09:47, fotch wrote:
I have several of these cords, all brand new. I will check these to see what the connections are. If the one you have is defective and you still need one, let me know. May I ask what they cost? Thanks


Several!

Mine is deffinitely defective. And being me, instead of returning it, I'm going to try to split open the plugs and rewire it. The kind of thing I do late at night to keep busy...

And since there's no selling allowed on this board, check your private mail
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fotch



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Lake Geneva, WI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All three have the same connections. One of them still has the new box it comes in, from Singer. Connections as follows:

Shutter
1 2
I I to Y


Remote
1 2
I I to Y


Main (3 Pin connector)
1 2 3
O O O to wire which Y is connected

*******************************

Shutter 1 to Main 2
Shutter 2 to (not connected)


Remote 1 to Main 1
Remote 2 to Main 3
****************************
Hopefully this will make sense otherwise I can scan the drawing in an email you the photo. Good Luck.

PS. I was not aware about the "no sales" and thank you for advising me. Please forgive my ignorance.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about your diagram.
"Shutter 2 to (not connected) "???

It could possibly work if the remote was plugged in and that connection was grounded, which was not common or very safe.
On my cord, both shutter connection follow down to the 3 pin body plug. Although the black wires do both connect to the same pin ("A" on the Graflex documentation)...

It's not the wiring that's in question, now anyway as I've already cut into the connectors... The whole problem turns out to be the rubber tube around the wires that Graflex used. This dried and rotted the vinyl insulation on the two wires inside the tube. When they were flexed, it broke the thin copper wires inside. This would have been an easy fix if they didn't use molded plugs.... Or if I didn't care about trying to save the original plugs... But some carful slicing, a bit of dremel digging, and I may get new wires inside that rubber tube... With luck, the repair won't even be that obvious, from a moving car, at 60mph.....

Al the fun of Graflex equipment...
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some additional info...

I thought it might help others to see what the Super does with those flash connector pins. So here's the schematic out of the service manual:



This shows the connections inside the camera and the plug designations (A, B, C).

And some thoughts... After slicing into the plns on my original Y-cord, I certainly could not recommend to anyone to buy an original cord and expect it to work. The insulation on the internal wires is rendered extremely brittle because of the rubber coating on the outside. Any flexing at all breaks the wires...

I took a look a Paramount to see about a new cord. They do make them, but gees, at some cost!

So... There's another thread around here somplace about making flash cords. Very simple using silicon rubber or liquid tape, or both. Use a Radio Shack "Adaptaplug 'G'" and Adaptaplug socket for the PC side (if you want a modern PC connection. A household plug is just that simple, an AC household plug...

For the Super flash connector, I used .094 (3/32) brass rod to make the pins. Solder the wires for the PC connection to the pins and slop on the silicon... The whole thing may cost 10 bucks...

I thought my .094 rod was a bit too thin when I made my cable, but it was all I had that would fit. When I got the real cable, the pins measured .094... Maybe I have a loose socket?

Anyway, this thread should make clear all that anyone would want to know about Super Y-cords and how to make them. If you decide to make one for yourself and have any questions, feel free to ask...


And after a thought... I'm not knocking Paramount. At least they are making cords for Graflex cameras! Noone else is that I know of. And if you can't understand the schematic above or are not proficient with a soldering iron, then their service is worth the cost. And, ummm, their cords do tend to look a whole lot better than mine


[ This Message was edited by: RichS on 2005-03-24 21:46 ]
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Jack5541



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rich...Just a thought...I'm not sure what your original cord looks like (or lookED like before it's recent surgery). But from what I've seen it appears that there were atleast 2 generations of these Y-cords.

The first (earliest?) type has a "squarish"-molded "Y" connection that reads SHUTTER and REMOTE. The later version has a more "triangular" molded "Y" connection. I have both types and I think that the first type with the square-molded connection is more durable today, i.e. has probably stood the test of time better, than the later style. On the earlier cord, the outer black rubber insulation is much thicker and more durable on the 2 short legs that lead up to the household plugs. The later cord has much thinner and flimsier outer insulation, and this cord I feel like I have to gingerly treat with kid gloves lest these 2 short pieces will either fall apart or be separated from the plugs.

Would anyone know approximately when Graflex made these types of changes on the "Y" cords? Not that there's a definitive answer, nor that it really matters, I guess. A good estimate might be some time around 1964 or 1965?

I would definitely try to find one of the older style cords with the thicker insulation. Mine has worked fine since I brought it home, got it to my drafting table and scrubbed the household and pin contacts with Never-Dull. It is this older cord that is pictured in the SSG manual that I have.

Just my 2 cents worth.........

Jack.

[ This Message was edited by: Jack5541 on 2005-03-25 13:56 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have no doubts that Graflex made changes, to everything, all the time

I have no idea about the Y-cords though. The only one I've ever seen is the one I have...

Mine has a triangular "Y" with 'Shutter' and 'Remote' engraved in white letters. Hmmm, didn't notice before, but it does NOT look ike the one on page 10 of the service manual... Is that one the 'square' type you mention? The service manual I have is from after '65, but I don't see a date anywhere. They documented the change in the Super that occured (I believe) in '65...

There's a lot of factors that would affect these cords. The storage, usage (more use the better), temperature, humidity, etc. The big problem with the older electronics was the use of rubber. It had a high sulfur content and cause corrosion and degredation of other parts. And it was still in common use in the 80's. I remember when my old company stopped using rubber insulators in the 80's. Suprising it took 30 or 40 years to realize the problem....

Really what it comes down to is that any electric type cord should be suspect after 40 or 50 years. I had good luck with the bi-pole shutters cords that I bought and maybe this Y-cord just saw a bad life? But after seeing this one, seeing what Paramount wants for a new one, and making my own... I'll be happy with my really ugly cord If I had the chance to pick up a "working" Y-cord for the right price, I might grab it, mostly because of what mine has now gone through... But I won't be searching for one...


Okay, checked through my catalogs... From 1962 through 1968, the part number remained 2802. From 1964 through 1968, the cord they show is the same as the '65 service manual with the squarish 'Y' connection. So the triangular one is either older than 1962 or newer than 1968... Maybe someone else has catalog from other years?


[ This Message was edited by: RichS on 2005-03-25 17:03 ]
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