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Kodak shutter problems
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npowroz



Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 8
Location: National Capital Region, Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2002 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following this discussion with some interest, as the lens on my Speed Graphic (recently acquired) is showing obvious signs of being glued by old lubricant. The shutter leaves all move (slowly), but the edge of each leaf has visible gunk on it.

While the lighter fluid/electrical contact cleaner/Freon cleaning approach sounds attractive, personally I am somewhat afraid of opening up the lens and shutter. However, since I am located north of the U.S. border, there are many hassles associated with sending a lens off for CLA to someone like Steve Grimes.

All told, I guess I'm looking for two things -- one is a reassurance that I really could attempt to clean the shutter myself. The other is whether anyone knows of a Steve Grimes-type person north of the border, preferably in the Ontario area.

Many thanks.

Norm
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:34 ]
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npowroz



Joined: 28 May 2002
Posts: 8
Location: National Capital Region, Canada

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


Of course if you can't use a screwdriver skip all this.



Not to worry -- I am actually fairly handy. As well, I am usually smart enough to avoid taking my toys apart when it looks like the complexity may be beyond my capabilities.

My thanks for the detailed procedure. I feel much more confident in taking on the task now that the path is a little clearer.

Cheers
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2002 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:35 ]
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JoePhoto



Joined: 13 Oct 2001
Posts: 74
Location: New England

PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2002 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel a word of caution is in order for anyone who smokes AND uses Teflon. You have to wash your hands before smoking and even then use caution. An affliction I've had is called Polymer Fume Fever. About halfway through your first cigarette you'll find that you can't inhale completely without a lot of pain. About an hour later you'll start having fever and chills then you'll just want to die until about 24 hours later when you're as good as new. I probably should have given up the smoking but I decided to avoid Teflon at all. Even washing your hands may not be effective as Teflon isn't water soluble. My experience with it was as a hinge lubricant which was applied with Freon (before it was known as an environmental hazard). When the Freon evaporated the Teflon was left behind. Stick with the lighter fluid or Naptha (major ingredient in lighter fluid).



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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I tried to clean a Kodak Supermatic Shutter today with a mixture of Ronsonol and powdered graphite lock lubricant. The slow shutter speeds were a little too slow. After drying, I see what looks like "stardust", the remnants of the graphite. The shutter speeds are better, but now the trip lever is slow to return to its original position and seems to have "drag" or friction. If it doesn't return completely, the shutter won't cock. I've repeated the process 3 times, same result. Did I get a very poor grade of graphite? The sparkly residue, ultra-fine particles, look more like mica than graphite. The first time I cleaned it, it appeared some oily residue had migrated out onto the shutter leaves. It's as if there WAS some sort of oily lubricant on the trip mechanism and now that it's removed, the graphite is not adequate to make it work smoothly. HELP.
Fred.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cleaned a Supermatic (X) a while ago with the same process and it worked just fine. I know, that doesn't help you... But it should allay any fears of ruining the shutter?
And, yep, little sparkles all over the inside of the shutter... Graphite will look like that on a dark background. It's even more annoying when they show up on the indide of the lenses...
Anyway, if you still have any liquid showing on the arperture or shutter blades, either it's still not clean, or it's not dry! I had one that took 3 days to dry completely. It was submerged in naptha for a while.
If it's clean and not still wet, then my first suggestion would be to cock & trip it a few dozen times to see if it will loosen up.
If that doesn't work, I'd be left with only two more suggestions...
First (to appease the rest of the folks here), send it off for a pro cleaning to S.Grimes or someone.
Second, open the front of the shutter (very carefully) and apply a very light lubricant to the sticky parts, very sparingly! The old "sewing machine oil" was popularly used and Micro Tools sells an oil specifically for shutters...
I'm sure more suggestions will follow
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extraparts



Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 59
Location: texas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second everything Rich says. I have had over 10 shutters that I have done that way and it seems to work every time. (Maybe I am just lucky and my turn is comming.) Most of the shutter speeds measure within a half stop afterwards, and I have heard that new they only claim to be within 1/3.

One thing I do differently is that I soak them in kerosene in a ultrasonic pen cleaner until they are clean ( thirty minutes or so) and then put them in the graphite bath. Afterwards if I overdid the graphite (I usually do) I gently blow the excess away before re-installing the elements.

It sounds to me like you softened up some old grease and it moved somewhere it shouldn't or that you traped one of the timeing leavers with the top cover when you put it back on. I find that easy to do.

Usually I put the timing ring back on and work it through the shutter speeds to be sure all the little leavers engage correctly before final assembly.

Neal
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:32 ]
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to everyone for trying to help. Shutter and all parts are dry...and some lubricant is definitely needed on the moving parts of the shutter release, so am going to take Charles' advice and sparingly slick-up the problem spot. Thanks again. Fred. P.S. Where do I get Tri-Flow with Teflon? Haven't blown up the house yet...but have encountered a few dirty looks.P.P.S: Sorry for all the edits, but keep thinking of something else. Perish the thought, but is (gasp...choke) WD-40 a complete no-no as a lubricant for a shutter if sparingly used?
[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2002-07-12 04:55 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2002-07-12 04:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: clnfrd on 2002-07-12 05:02 ]
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extraparts



Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 59
Location: texas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the key word is "spairingly". I usually use what ever is handy. Shame on me. I am 52 and figure I will be dead before it gums up. The best stuff I have found is a "Ramset" nail gun lubricant. It is very thin and very high detergent.

However, as a despenser I use the end of a tooth pick or a paper clip. the amount of oil that clings on till I get to the shutter is usually more than enough to spot lube something. If it can be called a drop, it is probably way too much. Put some on, work the shutter and give it time to spread, then and only then add more. I have even put a drop on and then wicked off the excess.

I will lube shaft ends, gear teeth, and anywhere that I can see that a leaver is rubbing against something else. Keep it away from the shutter blades.

(Aside: I bet Steve Grimes reads these posts instead of funny papers)

Neal

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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would consider Wd-40 just a little on the heavy side for a shutter. But, if I had nothing else on hand, I would give it a try. _Do Not_ spay it into the shutter if all you have is a spray can! Spray it into a cup (not a Dixie cup because of the wax coating) or some other container, then use the toothpick idea as a 'dropper'.
After all, if you do get too much in or it doesn't work, you do know how to clean it out
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2002 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neal, you think like I do. I'm 68 and if I can make it work okay for now without doing something really silly...I'll try it. After all, can always clean it again and start over. I removed the front plate again..and discovered the ring that has the lever that cocks the shutter delay for flash was not positioned precisely where it should be, causing friction on the return of the shutter release assembly. This corrected most of the problem...I very LIGHTLY lubed the moving parts involved with some gun lubricant I forgot I had using the tip of a swizzle stick...and all seems to be well after re-assembly. Would still like to know where to obtain the tri-flow with teflon in case this doesn't last and I have to start from scratch. Thanks one and all for helping this old codger. Fred.
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, I'll get me some Tri-Flow to add to my arsenal just in case. Don't have any 357's to lend you...only 44 magnums. Thanks again. Fred.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3255
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2002 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-12-24 19:35 ]
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