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Crown Graphic rangefinder Cams
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kfritch



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know a reliable source for these cams either original or after market?
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-07-08 19:21, kfritch wrote:
Does anybody know a reliable source for these cams either original or after market?

Hi
I've read your request several times and have tried to decide how or if to answer. Well, no one else has so I'll give it a shot.
Is there a reliable source, I don't know of any. Why?.... There isn't any money in it!
I will tell you what I've done. Search eBay until the right cam comes up and be sure to make the highest bid! I bite the bullet and paid the price.
I do have a sketch on my web site of the P5 (135mm) cam and the P9 (152MM) cam. I don't know one person that's used it because it takes time to make. Again, I went the eBay route. I have made my manuals (free for downloading) on the internet, again, it takes time and effort. Tell me if you're interested.

Perhaps, You will tell us what cams you want other than a reliable source.
Harry
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kfritch



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Long Island

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your speedy response. My camera came with the 127mm cam. Other lenses available to me are 100mm, 150mm, 162mm, 203mm, 10" and 15" as well as 3" and 90mm. My need for cams is not urgent as I generally use tripod and ground glass or scale focussing, but it would be nice to have the option of using the rangefinder more often than I do. If your website has to scale drawings, I'd be tempted to have a go at fabricating what I can use.
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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might also consult the helpful article on this site about making "Pacemaker" cams.

One of these days, someone with a small CNC milling machine is going to need a couple of cams for himself or herself, write the necessary code, and decide that he or she could make, at least, beer money by selling them.
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.worldphoto.bravepages.com/
Okay, You don't have to wait for all the photographs to load. As soon as the box, "Click to go to the bottom of the page" appears... Click it. Then click the "Graflex Directory" link and the sketch is at the bottom of that page.
The 40 page manual just above the sketch will be of value. It helps explain how to replace cams. The only other thing is to be sure and extend the bellows far enough to release the pressure on the rangefinder cable at the left side of the camera bed. Don't release it too far, I have heard about the ball bearings (in the tube)rolling all over the floor.
I also have the 127mm cam and lens. I doubt if cams for the shorter lenses would be of much value. My cams work great as long as my shooting range is six feet or farther. In fact, I only use my Crown freehand. If I need my tripod, I use my view, homemade, cameras.
Harry

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-07-12 20:20 ]
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Stilagrrl



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 51
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Harry,

I looked at the drawings on your web site of the 135mm and 152mm cams and I had a quick question. You show the measurement for the 135mm cam on the short end to be 7.25mm plus 1mm for the corner. However, the short end of the 152mm cam is shown to be only 7mm plus 1mm for the corner. If I look at the difference between my 135mm cam and my 254mm (10") cam it looks like the short end should get taller as the lens gets longer. However, your drawing shows just the opposite. Is this something unique to the 152mm lens or did those two numbers get switched around?

Thanks,
Rachel
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rachel
I will get back to you witn an answer in a few days, We had an emergency this morning. It's Okay now.
Harry
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Stilagrrl



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 51
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Harry,

Thank you and I do hope everything is okay. No rush getting back to me, I'm just getting started making cams and I'm still in the information gathering stage.

Thanks,
Rachel
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2004 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel
You are right, the short end of the cam dimension should increase as the lens becomes longer. The 152mm lens dimension should be closer to 7.30mm rather than the 7mm shown. The manual at the bottom of page 6 it's noted that..... long lenses (10 to 15 inch telephoto) have a very slight slope of the cam from infinity (the high point).
Harry
One additional item I found, that the rangerfinder arm travels only a little over half way across the top of the cam to go from the infinity point (highest point on cam)to the 6 foot point on the camera bed scale. I am not sure how accurate the rangefinder is with any closer focus? (The scale only goes from infinity to 6 feet.)

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-11-29 20:36 ]
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Stilagrrl



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 51
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Harry,

Thank you very much! I picked up a digital caliper and some 22 gauge steel so I'm ready to start making a few cams.

I did measure my 135mm cam and the dimensions were slightly different from what you have posted. How did you measure yours?

Now that I have an accurate way of measuring my cams, I can post the dimensions of the other original cams that I have in case anyone wants to roll their own.

Rachel
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Rachel
It's good to hear that you're going to fabricate some cams and post your originals. I wish more would do it!
I measured the cams with a metric ruler back in the earlier 70's at W.D. Service Inc. in Los Angles, Ca. Past employees of Graflex ran the repair business in a 2nd level loft on South San Pedro. I had just bought my Crown used and took it in to have it completely serviced. They would not part with their cams but they allowed me to sketch and measure them. They did sell me my 40 page manual that is posted on my web site. Even then cams were hard to come by.....Now we have eBay and the internet!
A couple thoughts.... Suggest making several blanks for each cam and possibly using aluminum instead of steel. Try a Hobby Shop in S.F.
Good Luck, I know you can do it! Harry

Another thought... It appears to me that my three cams all are at the same height at the highest point (the infinity point). Would you please stand your two cams on a table and tell me if they match at the highest point? This could really simplify fabrication! The differences would only depend on bellows extension variations (infinity stops on the camera bed).
Rachel, thanks for the dialog. Harry
Note: Sliding the bellows on the camera bed rail doesn't change the location of the rangefinder arm at the cam or rangefinder cable stop at the camera bed.



[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-12-01 10:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-12-01 10:59 ]
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Stilagrrl



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 51
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Harry,

I have the following cams that I'll measure and post the specs for: 100mm (P29), 127mm (P3), 135mm (P6), 10" (P18) and 14" (P48). I bought both 22 gauge aluminum and steel plates that I can use for the cams. The aluminum seemed a bit flimsy, so I was going with the steel. Maybe I'll start with the aluminum and if that doesn't work, I'll try the steel.

I found the height for the infinity end of the cam to be 11.4mm and all of my cams are the same height at that end. The variations in the cams seem to be the height at the near focus end and, of course, the slope/curve.

Rachel
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worldphoto



Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Posts: 199
Location: Southern California

PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My highest infinity ends also measure 11.4mm. So we got that one solved.
22 gauge seems a little too thin. I measured the thickness of my cams to a gauge chart and 20 gauge would be better. My local Hobby shop stocks flat bars of shined aluminum and brass that is 12 inches long by 1/2 inch wide. The thickness is right on!
It is made by K&S Engineering of Chicago, IL.
I believe I can rough cut it on my scroll saw and then do the final work with a file. One should be able to get ten cams out of each bar. The price was only a couple dollars.
Harry
Just a few final notes:
Rachel's cam dimensions will be much more accurate than my web site cam sketches.
There has been some discussion on this forum regarding locating a master cam to adjust ones rangefinder. Page 5 of the 40 page manual shows the critical dimensions to fabricate one. The dimensions are decimal inches such as infinity height of 0.437 inches plus or minus 0.0002 inches.


[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-12-02 10:45 ]

[ This Message was edited by: worldphoto on 2004-12-02 10:52 ]
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Stilagrrl



Joined: 16 May 2004
Posts: 51
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, I've finally measured all of my cams and here are the results. First, the dimensions that don't change, I'll call them left, bottom and top, with the left side being infinity, the bottom being the non-sloping side and the top being the side with the slope. Left: 11.4mm; Bottom: 25.8mm; Top: 23.85mm. Now for the right side and the curve:

CamHeightCurve
P29:100mm6.5mm0.85mm
P3:127mm7.6mm0.45mm
P6:135mm8.3mm0.35mm
P18:10"10.10mm0mm
P48:14"10.54mm0mm


What I'm calling the curve is the measurement of the distance, at the midpoint of the cam, between the sloping side of the cam and a flat sureface (see Harry's drawings for details).

BTW, I did spend some time trying to come up with a formula such that you could enter any focal length and it would spit out the height and curve, but so far, it's been elusive. If anyone comes up with something, I would love to hear about it.

Thanks,
Rachel


[ This Message was edited by: Stilagrrl on 2004-12-11 12:51 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Stilagrrl on 2004-12-11 12:56 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rachel,

Your work is appreciated... Just thought I'd let you know...

Now, quite a while ago, a couple of us tried to get "copies" of all the cams to do some documentation for reproduction. "Copies" as in the photo-scan type, plus the measured dimensions... Needless to say, there was no response and no one interested. Something I still can't understand?

But since I initiated that back then, and have no free time now, I thought "what the heck" and I'd ask for you to go one step further. If you could scan or photo-copy your cams and send the info to me, I would greatly appreciate it. I still believe that a scan/photo copy is a great aid because it allows the direct comparison between any two cams. I would take the info and asseble it into a PDF file for the Graflex docs on my site for anyone that needs it. Maybe it would help generate the interest in some others to do the same with the missing cams? Just a thought

Thanks for the work!
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