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3 Cell question

 
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know the 3 cell (old style, not 2773)? I have the graflite book but it doesn't cover the old gun and I would like to know which port/socket is supposed to get hooked up to what. There's three, one household in the middle and two bipost on either side. I have two seriously dried up cables that I might send to paramount to see if he can make me new ones. If not maybe I'll try to fabricate something on my own.
Any info/feedback appreciated. Thanks.
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Jack5541



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi...I use one of the older flashes as it was intended to be used, i.e. for firing flash bulbs in sync with a camera shutter. (Never even had the slightest temptation to attach a chopped-up wiper blade to it).

Basically there were 2 cords made to be used with it to handle most of what you need to do. The cords both have the odd-looking molded circular outlets at one end. These ends are plugged into the round ports. The other end of one of the cords has solenoid prongs. The other type of cord has a standard female bipost receptacle.

On the battery case itself, on the back you have the red button surrounded by a knurled knob which can be unscrewed and swung down out of the way, revealing a round port with two bipost prongs in it. As you say, there are also 2 of these in the "front" of the unit as well.

The round port under the red button is a connection for the cord to connect to either the front shutter bipost prongs or for the focal plane shutter bipost prongs. Connect the circular plug into this port and the other end to the biposts on a front synchronized shutter.

Either one of the two round ports on the front of the battery case can be used with the circular plug-to-solenoid cord. With this cord connected, you can fire the bulb and remotely trip the shutter via the solenoid by pressing the red button on the back when it is in the upward and screwed-in position.

Just a note: As suggested in the Graflex Flash Synchronizer manual, do not connect the shutter cord (A-20) to either of the 2 front ports. It will not work. And likewise, obviously you can't trip the solenoid by connecting the solenoid cord to the rear port because the red button would have to be swung down in order to connect the cord.

As for the household plug in the front, that's a bit of a mystery to me. I've never used it and the manual is kinda vague about what it's for. Manual does say you can use it to connect extensions like the side-lighting units for multiple bulb exposures, but as I said I've never tried anything like this. I wonder if it might also be a "live" type of outlet that can be used to power a focuspot accessory (in this case, similar in function to the "battery" outlet on the model 2773).

I have also seen photos of the focus light lens (under the household outlet) unscrewed off the front of the older handles and there is a sync cord of some type actually coming out of the hole where the "glass eye" usually is. I have no idea what the cord is for when hooked up like this. Perhaps I'll review this section of the manual when I get home to try to get a better understanding of this. Does anyone else know?

I was lucky enough to get a couple of cords for the unit that were in pretty darn good condition. Got them from Cliff Scofield at a local camera show, in fact...he's 100 years young and still going strong!!! But I agree, good cords for the older flash are very rare to find! I recently put in a call myself to Paramount cords about having new ones made to fit the the circular ports. The fellow I talked to said that they could likely make up the connections. Even though the molded circular port plugs aren't standard items they advertise on their website, they said that they do have molds for similar types of connections. What he wanted me to do was send him the old cords I have and he would probably be able to replicate them in brand new cords. I haven't done so yet, but you might give it a try by calling them. If you do and have good results, post back and let us know how you make out.

Also, post back if you have other questions. I hope my reply makes sense, haven't had my usual gallon of morning coffee yet!

--Jack

[ This Message was edited by: Jack5541 on 2004-11-19 04:43 ]
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks a million. It all makes sense to me. I've used paramount to make solenoid cords before, so I'll try calling them next week or so about this project. I have two of the molded ends here, and I'll send him one for sizing and fitment.
I don't suppose you know how to disassemble this unit? I have 4 of these old guns, but only one seems to work. I'd like to get one more of them up and running. I figure there is a bit of corrosion inside someplace, and if I can get to it I'll be in good shape. I've had the 2773 handle apart, but, as you know, this is a whole different ball game. If I could find a service manual on it, that would do the trick I think.
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Jack5541



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-11-19 14:36, Gammanine wrote:
Thanks a million. It all makes sense to me. I've used paramount to make solenoid cords before, so I'll try calling them next week or so about this project. I have two of the molded ends here, and I'll send him one for sizing and fitment.
I don't suppose you know how to disassemble this unit? I have 4 of these old guns, but only one seems to work. I'd like to get one more of them up and running. I figure there is a bit of corrosion inside someplace, and if I can get to it I'll be in good shape. I've had the 2773 handle apart, but, as you know, this is a whole different ball game. If I could find a service manual on it, that would do the trick I think.

Let me (us) know how you make out if Paramount can make up these cords for you. The guy I talked to last week went on at some length about their company history, going back to the 1930's or 40's when they were somehow connected to Heiland, I think it was. He said he could almost guarantee that they had molds for the funky circular plug to fit the round ports. I suppose it's like alot of old vintage stuff...they don't have much demand for it.

As for dismantling the unit, I don't have a clue, and I have never seen or heard of a parts/service manual for it, only the user manuals which I have a copy of. Truth be told, we are all well aware that there is a certain group of fanatics out there who are quite adept at dismantling these things. Only trouble is these folks don't seem to be very much interested in re-assembling them to work as flashes.

It's for this reason that I like using mine, and it's too bad that old, rotting, brittle, irreplaceable cords are the only things preventing them from seeing service again as flashes. (This reason and THAT damn movie). This is also why it would be nice to see if Paramount can make these up new from scratch.
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, I've never seen "that movie".
But I am thinking about contacting one of those fanatics about getting into one of these guns.
First I'd like to clean out the gunk then I'd like to rewire it so I could trip the solenoid and fire the bulb by using the button on the rear. Shouldn't be too hard once I get in.
I know the guy you talked to a Paramount. Nice guy. He probably does have the mold. Soon as I find out what the deal is I'll post my findings.
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Press25



Joined: 28 May 2003
Posts: 13
Location: Minneapolis,MN

PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>You know, I've never seen "that movie".
But I am thinking about contacting one of those fanatics about getting into one of these guns.
First I'd like to clean out the gunk then I'd like to rewire it so I could trip the solenoid and fire the bulb by using the button on the rear. Shouldn't be too hard once I get in.
I know the guy you talked to a Paramount. Nice guy. He probably does have the mold. Soon as I find out what the deal is I'll post my findings>>

Gammanine,
I too, am interested in obtaining some new cords. I have several of the Graflex syncronizers and side lighting units. If Paramount needs more benefit from several orders than perhaps we can work together?


[ This Message was edited by: Press25 on 2004-11-19 20:34 ]
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Jack5541



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-11-19 04:34, Jack5541 wrote:
As for the household plug in the front, that's a bit of a mystery to me. I've never used it and the manual is kinda vague about what it's for. Manual does say you can use it to connect extensions like the side-lighting units for multiple bulb exposures, but as I said I've never tried anything like this. I wonder if it might also be a "live" type of outlet that can be used to power a focuspot accessory (in this case, similar in function to the "battery" outlet on the model 2773).

In regard to the single household outlet in the front of the battery case, the instruction manual has this to say...

"A standard household plug can be inserted into the vertical openings in front of the battery case to permit the use of standard photoflood reflectors or ordinary home lighting equipment to hold additional flash lamps."

So, I interpret this to mean that the front household outlet above the built-in focusing spotlight ("glass eye") serves a purpose similar to the "extension" outlet on the 2773, rather than being "live" like the "battery" outlet on the 2773. I did try to plug the Kalart focuspot cord into the front outlet and turn the focuspot on...it didn't work at all, yet it did when I used the "battery" outlet on my 2773.

On page 11 of the user manual that I have, it shows an Anniversary Speed equipped with focuspot attachment and the end of the cord goes into the hole in the front where the "glass eye" and bulb would otherwise be found. So it appears that in order to power a focuspot with this battery case, the household plug on the focuspot cord needs to be chopped off and the cord needs to be hard-wired somehow.
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Jack5541



Joined: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2003-09-05 12:19, Flashnut29 wrote:
Hi I am a newbie here. I was wondering if anyone knows what kind of bulb (flashlight bulb? or something special?) is supposed to go behind the glass eye on my Graflex 3 cell Pat#2310165.

Quote:

On 2003-09-06 06:41, Flashnut29 wrote:
My flash has no product number only patent number. It is a Graflex 3-cell flash gun that pre-dates the Graflite (and it is the model that SW fans are trying so desperately to obtain. The bulb I am talking about goes in the glass eye part (the flash did not come with the bulb so I have no frame of reference for what make or size to use)

From the Graflex Flashing Unit Instruction Manual…..

SPOTLIGHT LAMP REPLACEMENT
Should it be necessary to replace the spotlight lamp, unscrew its lens mount and permit the lamp to drop into the hand. Merely drop another suitable flashlight lamp in its place and replace the lens with its knurled collar and lamp-retaining spring threading it securely in place. If the spot of light should be too high or too low in the field of the lens, rotate lamp until it is properly centered.
Since the flashlight lamps used in the focusing spotlight battery case have been made for different voltages, it is necessary to change this lamp when increasing the voltage through the use of additional battery cells. In use, by virtue of the necessity of using in the GRAFLEX spotlight compartment a lamp rated for greater voltage than will be available, the light may be somewhat dimmer than is true in some of the other combinations. The following table indicates the appropriate lamp in each instance. (See Footnote).

2 Cells…Mazda Lamp # 14…Rated Voltage 2.5…Bulb Size G-3.5
3 Cells…Mazda Lamp # 13…Rated Voltage 3.8…Bulb Size G-3.5
4 Cells…Mazda Lamp # 50..Rated Voltage 6-8...Bulb Size G-3.5
5 Cells…Mazda Lamp # 50..Rated Voltage 6-8..Bulb Size G-3.5

(FOOTNOTE:) The same is true of the accessory Kalart Focuspot, but with 4 cells the No. 502-5V size G-4.5 bulb is required because of the space available for housing it.

[ This Message was edited by: Jack5541 on 2004-11-22 06:49 ]
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ordered these bulbs from Karst sports.
Petzl Standard 4.5volt 05201 bulb - FR0021
1.75 each.
Works perfectly. They have a website, I found them by searching for 4.5 V bulbs.
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

addl info on the 3 cell flash
Just got a user manual on this flashgun. There is an accessory listed called the Graflex Electroswitch. Its a housing with a button on the front. it seems to be held in place by a screw found between the openings of the household connection on the front of the gun. This set up incorporates a second cable that attaches to the bipost connection under the red button. That lead goes to the bipost on a shutter. The lead from the button on the electroswitch goes to a solenoid. Seems to be how you could use this gun the same way a 2773 is used. Now.. its not so simple as that. According to this publication, one needs to use a 0 solenoid for the supermatic shutter and a number 2 solenoid for a graphex number 2 shutter. And then it would need to be 'properly adjusted by a competent camera repairman".
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eeclarkjr



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 10
Location: South Florida

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know where I can get a replacement focus light bezel?
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