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PRISM ON GRAFLEX SLR ?
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djon



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 174
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not employ a DSLR (eg Nikon D70) hooked live to a laptop? That's routine practice in commercial photo studios currently.

Arca makes a back for DSLR attachment...it undoubtedly could readily be attached to a Super D, though making your own might be cheaper.

You'd have a super-bright, sharp, accurate view. And according to your laptop selection, you'd have big screens ranging from about 9" to 19" diagonal, while weighing from 8oz to 4lbs.

[ This Message was edited by: djon on 2004-12-15 09:59 ]
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serdukoff



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Boston Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

djon,
An interesting idea indeed. Unfortunately, I don't yet have neither a digital camera nor a laptop. It's unclear though, whether you suggest to project a small portion of the image from the camera's own (Graflex's or other 4X5) lens onto the sensor of a digital SLR mounted at the focal plane of the large camera, or you mean aiming an upside-down SLR with its own lens at the ground glass, like I have done with a video camera. In either case the image will not be live, I suppose. You will need to do a capture and only then will be able to observe a static image on the laptop. The TV camera (a small camcorder) though, with a lot less resolution, of course, novertheless allows one fo zoom in on the center and to check the focus live. I remember finding that very convenient.
Now, as to my prizm elaborations, I have gotten to making mental sketches of two versions thereof. One can be with stereo viewer for convenience, but will deliver left-to-right inverted image. The other version can be a fully corrected mirror box, with one eye viewing, like on any other prizm. I envision either the fixed 45 degree arrangement, like Mamiya RB and RZ, or an ajustable angle, between horisontal and 45. Modern mirrors (Edmund Industrial Optics) can be of very high quality indeed, like someone here suggested. Anyway, I am determined to build the prizm-like viewer for either or both of mine 3X4 and 4X5 Graflexes. Next will be the adaptation of the aerial lenses (sweet F2. with movements to Graflex bodies. Stay tuned.
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serdukoff



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Boston Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the post a minute ago I meant "sweet TWO, POINT EIGHT), rather than some stupid smiley.
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djon



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 174
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


It'd be easy to position a digital camera in the viewfinder tube of a Super D.

I suspect there'd be no better way to do what you want, if you're really after right-images, sheet film, and old fashioned lens abberations.

A Canon 10D (or Fuji S2 or one of the Nikons)can give you the image live on a monitor. Used that way, they've become the standard for catalog and advertising photography because the art directors can look at big monitors, or even projections, rather than little 4X5 polaroids. And of course, 6MP looks as good as 8X10 film in a magazine or catalog, so film's irrelevant anyway.

Certain of the $300 pocket-sized digicams will probably do what you want as well, and would give you brighter imagery than any prism ...you'd have to research which of them allow live viewing on a computer, rather than downloading... I think some of the smallest Canons will do it. I don't know how their autofocusing would handle things, but that'd be easy to research .
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Mediumformatphoto



Joined: 14 Aug 2004
Posts: 18
Location: Washington DC, USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about a prism, but I just recently bought a Polaroid MP-4 copy camera viewing hood that supposedly locks right into a 4x5 Graflok back. The hood is quite nice, has a frenel screen, and has measurement hashes across the screen indicating length in inches and centimeters. The hood has a mirror that shows the image right side up. I probably paid too much, but if it works as good as it looks I don't care

Anyone use of these before? I'm planning on using it on a 4x5 SG I just bought, and will mount my 15" Tele Optar.
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Gammanine



Joined: 11 Aug 2001
Posts: 46
Location: Brooklyn NY

PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For what its worth....
The viewing hood of an arca fp camera can be fitted to the top of a 3x4 RB graflex with relative ease. Mount a fast 2.9 pentac and change the original GG to a beattie and you'll see just fine. I've held such a camera in my hands, and it was awkward and difficult to use. The eyepiece of the arca viewing hood can be rotated to any viewing angle from perpendicular to 90* or any point inbetween. I dont see many of the arca cameras around, but there are a few and there is one retailer in the NY area who has the aforementioned camera ******* in their showcase. Personally I don't like the arrangement much, I feel better with the camera hung down at waist level or lower. However, when shooting environmental portraits, being able to get the camera up higher could be usefull. I have on occasion held my camera out at arms length at eyelevel and shot down, which as you all know makes for very tireing work. Also, this is nearly impossible at slow shutter speeds. Having the front movements of a mentor or a plunger cam type of thing could be fun... and open creative possibilities. Particularly used with a fast lens. I used to have a 300 on my 4x5 rb which would never hit infinity, but was damn cool for studio work. Limited... yes. My current love is a 9" Pentac on a 3x4. I'm probably going to go back to a 4x5 rb though. My feeling is that the lens is somewhat 'choked' on the smaller neg and I want it to 'breath'more. The fingerprint of the longer lens is just not coming across the way it did on sheet film. Back to the drawing board, again... with a smile.
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Murray@uptowngallery.org



Joined: 03 Apr 2002
Posts: 164
Location: Holland MI

PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all:

I stumbled on this thread looking for info on 'what's inside a Graflex?'

I want to experiment with a reflex viewer on a box camera. What I envisioned (not having one), is that a manually operated mirror could drop down at 45 degrees to block the path between lens and film plane. This would deflect the image vertically, now erect. Hmmm, I think I just realized that's all that's needed minimally, plus a ground glass & hood...mirror and ground glass should be placed such that focus coincides with image position on film plane ground glass.

I came to this thread thinking I needed TWO mirrors, ground glass & maybe reducing viewfinder to get image out the back end, but two mirrors must be lossier as you have alluded to.

Did the Graflex cameras go to the effort of using a front surface mirror, or was there no such thing back then? Is there an advantage to an FS mirror, other than one less refractive optically imperfect surface offered by ordinary mirror (and the possible f.l. shift by n/t for the glass in front of the rear surface mirror?

Dmitri, are there any of your singlet (or other unconventional) images available to view on the web? They sound interesting.

Murray
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serdukoff



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Posts: 13
Location: Boston Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi [Murray],
From what I could understand, the later Graflex D models indeed do have first surface (FS) mirror in the box. This type, of course, is better than ordinary mirror, albeit the consequences of not using FS are tolerable, and not as drastic as your apprehensions suggest. In the viewfinder you will see a double image, the second one being shifted vertically ever so slightly, and very faint. This is that parasitic reflection from the first surface, in the case of an ordinary mirror being just the surface of the glass. This ghost image in the viewfinder would annoy a perfectionist, as it annoys me, but other than that... no worries. You can get cheap FS mirror stock these days (about 98% reflectivity), and I wouldn't concern oneself with the brightness loss from letting your light path to employ a few FS mirrors.
On the other hand, it sounds as though you are simply reinventing a bicycle, trying to make a simple SLR out of your box camera. There is nothing wrong with that, but Graflex SLRs are exactly that and then some. To deliver the correctly oriented image from the ground glass of any SLR you need a mirror box with three reflecting surfaces, or a pentaprism, that accomplishes exactly that. I can go into details, if you need more info. But as to building the mirror box I described in my initial post, I still haven't gotten to it, half a year since. Full time job, commute, rebuilding the house, children... overall being a looser, I guess.
That's why there are no my images to be found on the web. Except for that abandoned venue you see the path to in my profile. I began working on my personal site over a year ago, but being a perfectionist, I couldn't spend enough time to painfully guide the software coder I'd employ for that, to do things in my exact way.
Instead, I am sending you a few of such images as an attachment, in my direct email to you.
Regards,
Dmitri Serdukoff
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Murray@uptowngallery.org



Joined: 03 Apr 2002
Posts: 164
Location: Holland MI

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK thanks.

I liked what I saw on your linked page (I won't call anything 'pretty', so as not to offend :O)).

I also signed up for a space on that server. I like the flow of the website.

Murray
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