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Cut film tank
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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds interesting. The LF processing equip. market is declining, I would think, but something like this, if priced right, should fill a niche.

It won't hold a lot of sheets, but then I suspect most shooters don't normally use many sheets during a session. It should give better agitation than the old/new HR tanks, simply because of the opportunity to perform inversion agitation.
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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-03-04 19:29, MikeS wrote:
so I'm trying to get a feel for how many is too many? If I make 100 of them, will I get stuck with most of them, or not? Any opinions would be appreciated.




I don't think it's a question of how many. It's a question of how much versus how many.

Personally I see a few problems. First I'm guessing the largest number of LF people are older or at least expierenced. That means they have any equipment they need. Newer users will tend to be students or others that may have just gone broke with the camera. Hardly the sorts that will spring for an expensive item.

It would seem to me the main market would be people currently using a similar system looking to replace a part. Is that a big enough market? No idea.

You're also facing various other 4x5 choices. All taking some of the market.

You may end up having to hold on to the items for awhile selling the odd one every so often. The other idea would be to find a retailer willing to take them from you for resale. Easier said then done today.

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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to mention. You're also competing with the used market. How much do these things sell for used? How many sell during any time frame? Use those to guage interest and possible price.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-03-04 19:29, MikeS wrote:
Hi All.

I've been thinking of reproducing the Nikor 4x5 reel, but with some minor changes. One change would be that it wouldn't be adjustable, but rather just for 4x5 film. The other change would be that it would fit in a 'normal' diameter tank for doing 2 120 rolls (the 32oz tank) rather than needing the larger diameter tank the Nikors originally came with.

What I'm curious of is how much of a demand would there be for such a reel? If I do this, it's going to be made on computer controlled equipment (for bending the stainless wire, as wel as the spot welds), so I might have to make a large quantity of them, so I'm trying to get a feel for how many is too many? If I make 100 of them, will I get stuck with most of them, or not? Any opinions would be appreciated.



It's always nice to see someone willing to try somehting new in the LF market.

Along with what was said above, there are people like me who "have everything" but like to try new things. So it depends on cost. If it's something new or different and doesn't cost too much, people like me would buy one just to try.

But another problem is the tank. If you're not going to sell tanks with the reels, then what tanks will it fit? If I don't have a tank that fits, the chances of me buying the tank just to try the reel is pretty slim...

Ya win some & lose some...


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MikeS



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 71
Location: East Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I could be flawed in my thinking here, but I was looking at some pictures of the old Nikor 4x5 tank & reel, next to a dual 120 tank. The dual 120 tank (also known as a 32oz tank apparently) is taller, and narrower (it's the standard width developing tank). The original Nikor reel held the sheets of film in the landscape orientation, and was adjustable (requiring extra height) If I made the reel to hold the sheets in the portrait orientation, and made it so it's not adjustable, I should be able to fit the reel in the 'normal' diameter tank, either still developing 12 sheets at a time, or possibly cutting it down to 10 sheets.

Judging by the fact that the nikor tanks/reels for 4x5 rarely sell for under $100 these days, and some for over $200, and they all sell, and have multiple bidders on them I would say the market is there. The question is how many of them are buying them because they know the quality of Nikor products, and so might be hesitant to buy a new reproduction? How many of them buy them for collections? and how many buy them to actually use them? After a conversation with Freestyle it seems that the new tanks are not up to the quality of the old Nikors, but they work, so I might buy a few of their 32oz tanks to sell with the reels, as well as offering the reels seperately (for those that already have plenty of tanks)

After I get the design finalized I'll be dealing with a manufacturer that specializes in wire products, and I'm hoping that they don't look at it, say they can do it, then tell me their minimum order is 10,000 pieces! That is my problem right now. If I go on the assumtion that I can get them to make as few as 100 (asking a manufacturer to make less would get me laughed out of their office) would 100 be way too many? Will I have them sitting around forever?



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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I can add is that in that price range, I wouldn't be buying one. I'm not a Nikkor user of anything and the tanks I buy & use are well less than 50 bucks. It is after all, just a piece of wire. Price some Patterson tanks and reels... I don't own Jobo either...


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MikeS



Joined: 25 Nov 2003
Posts: 71
Location: East Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I haven't gotten to the pricing stage quite yet, but I was shooting for around $75 for the reel alone, or $100 with a tank. While this might sound high, considering that it's going to be a quality made in USA product, I don't think that's unreasonable. Of course this all depends on what they cost me to make in the first place, so I could be way off.

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Nick



Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 494

PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few more thoughts.

Ebay proves a market exists it often doesn't prove how deep the market is. I'll give an example. My enlarger uses a relatively expensive bulb [well expensive locally]. Every so often somebody sells a lot of them on Ebay. Lately one seller has been selling 10 at a time every week. It's gotten to the point that I can almost guess who will bid on those bulbs every single time. They've been selling for pretty close to the price that would buy them from a B&H so we've all been outbid but I know we'd all buy some at a lower cost. So we represent a market. Problem is it's pretty clear to me we are a relatively small market. The same three or four of us bid every time with usually a new Ebay buyer driving up the price and outbidding us. If the seller had put ten lots of ten up ******* at one time the price would have cratered.

Second thought. At $100 you can almost buy a Jobo 4x5 kit. That includes a small tank and reel. That's brand new. Used the setup can be quite a bit cheaper. I'm not saying you need to be priced lower then the competion but you need to have something the competion doesn't. A replacement part will be for some.



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barbequefool



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 11
Location: Northern CA-Pleasanton

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd buy one at a reasonable price. At the moment I'm looking for something to process 2-1/4 x 3-1/4 sheet film, but 4x5 isn't too far down the road if I find a deal on a camera.

-TH-
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Top



Joined: 06 Apr 2002
Posts: 198
Location: Northern New England USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone who started with open tanks and hangers, I think the Nikor tank is the greatest thing for LF work ever made. I paid the princely sum of $77.50 for mine on the 'bay,and in retrospect that seems OK now.
A reel to do 2x3 in a normal 120 tank would be a good thing, but I doubt it could be made in a cost-effective fashion.
Top

(And it's nice to see the forum up and running again. Thanks to all those who made it happen!)

[ This Message was edited by: top on 2007-02-08 06:42 ]
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djon



Joined: 05 Nov 2004
Posts: 174
Location: New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikor DID make a 500cc holder for 6X9...superb, worked in standard "120) tank. Not a reel, it was a corrugated thing that held film parallel...think it held
more than 6 sheets, don't recall. Lost mine somewhere, a bummer.
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mopar_guy



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Washington, the State

PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I am adding this post several months after the last posting was made. Last fall I aquired a 2x3 Crown Graphic as a fairly complete outfit and included among the Graflex accessories was a cut film developing tank with instructions. This tank is roughly six inches on each side and includes a removable top. The cover of the instruction book reads " fR ADJUSTABLE CUT-FILM-PACK DEVELOPING TANK" and "MODEL DT-500". The back of the instruction book reads "THE FR CORPORATION, 951 Brook Avenue, NEW YORK 51, N.Y."

The tank is made of black plastic and has a pair of removable slides with grooves to hold sheet film. A series of grooves in the tank sides allows the slides to be positioned to accomodate different sizes of sheet film from "Vest pocket" up through 4x5. The tank can hold twelve sheets of film.

I had forgotten that I had this item until recently when I had a few sheets of 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 Efke PL50 to process and I used this tank. Loading was in total darkness but once the lid is on the tank may be used with the lights on. Chemicals may be poured in through the top and back out the same way. I plan to use this tank a lot in the future for film processing.
By the way 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 is one of the sizes that this tank will handle.
This sort of item would of course be available as a used/vintage item.

I hope that this information may be useful to someone.

Regards,
Dave
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