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Graflex 3 Cell Anniversary Speed Graphic

 
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Chronique



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bet you were all expecting me to pose as some camera buff looking for a 3-cell for my "private collection", but no, I've been looking at this site for some time for the same thing as every other SW fan.

HOWEVER, before you lynch me, I think I've found a way to ease the tension for everyone. Parks *****s now makes a functional REPLICA 3-Cell flash handle of the Anniversary Speed Graphic, that is almost identical to the original, right down to the stamp on the base, and he says that it's even geared for use as a REAL, functional flash.

So, all you graflex enthusiats out there that don't care if your piece is a replica, they are going for $125 right now, less than half that of the going rate on the originals, and all of you lightsaber nuts out there, quit destroying the originals! This piece is so perfectly accurate, that no one will be able to tell. I know, I have an original.

Here's the link: http://www.parksabers.com/graflex.html
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Cykke



Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 16
Location: Croatia, Europe

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is great, I have bought 2 pieces... One for ANH conversion, and One for ESB conversion... And still I have bought REAL 3-Cell flash handle, and I didnt drill it, or something like that... I have just bought it so I can have real 3-Cell. I gave 180$ + shipping + duane bills. It cost me 250$. But its beautiful. If Admins wish to kick me, feel free. But I didnt came here to buy 3-Cell for conversion, I came here to buy it for my camera... And if you wish I can give you serial number
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides the reason this company is producing new units which I'm not too fond of, I'd have to say that it's nice to see reproductions being produced. I have one worry though. People selling these as originals! I looked at the site and they even have the bottom cap stamped Graflex exactly like the original. Could someone who would know check these out (pics are quite detailed) and let us know how to tell the difference between these and the original?
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Chronique



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the I was worried about that too, but I saw that the 6 holes drilled into the base of the handle are for movie prop purposes only, and would not be in an original. If someone destroyed the original by drilling holes in it, and then tried to sell it, then it wouldn't be worth nearly as much anyway, so they might as well just sell it as the replica. Plus, I'd have to break mine out of storage, but the bottom stamp looks off. I'll bet there's a distinct difference there.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems China has gotten into the reproduction business in a big way. Notice this one is a Folmer Graflex model. Check the other posts in the accessories forum. Another company is making a working flash unit with the Graflex Inc name and patent numbers on the bottom. It isn't drilled. Not having one in my hand (or the cash in the wallet) I can't say, but I have to assume that there will be suttle differences in the pins inside the ports.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahh, thank you. Not being able to afford (willing) to get an old one, I don't have one to compare it to. That's exactly what I was looking for. I noticed the mention of "tapped holes" on the site but had no idea where and what would have been on the origingal. Now we should be able to tell the old ones from the new. And you're right. Anyone dumb enough to drill holes into an original does ruin it for generations to come...
Thanks!
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2003 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe, maybe not. The repro flash that says "folmer Graflex" on the bottom has the holes drilled for the rubber 'cooling fins' for its other use.

The other post in accessories has a link to a second repro flash that says "Graflex Inc" and it doesn't have any holes drilled. That said all of this is just the bottom half. One could get a repro top and an original bottom and confuse a lot of people.



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vic valis



Joined: 21 Nov 2001
Posts: 247
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, having had the idea a while ago to assemble a flash from parts, giving up because of the lack internal parts and buying one whole, and then seeing the repro site, I gave the guy a call wo see what was up. What he said was that they are still reviewing the latest samples from China, will make some more corrections. The manufacturer has an original Graflex, and they have one in Texas. He said they expect to start recieving the first run at the end of May. Major differences are that the internal parts are high-impact plastic in place of bakelite. Aside from that, the product should be exact in every other respect. He said he's been contacted by many photographers just like us in addition to the You-know-what fans, and so he plans on stocking both drilled and undrilled handles for collectors of both varieties. He will also be stocking parts to use as replacements for repair of older units. It sounds good as long as we know it's a repro, however lots of people are planning on selling on ebay. On the plus side, a flood of repros that function and look like originals ought to bring the price down, and these new units may make the You-know-who fans shun originals with dings and scratches. The down side is that when we think we're buying an original, it may in fact be a repro. Good thing? Bad thing? I don't know, just thought I'd share what I have learned.

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MR



Joined: 11 Dec 2002
Posts: 14
Location: New York

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are subtle differences between Jeff's replice and the real deal. Jeff based his on an older model, so the pins have square bases, and the red in the rear button that fires the solenoid also is a darker color. He'll be correcting both in future models. Otherwise, it's pretty much dead on. The flash is available with and without holes for the prop guys who want to make *****rs reflective of ANH and ESB or the Vader ROTJ.

[ This Message was edited by: MR on 2003-04-25 07:13 ]
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Chronique



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also noted one very distinct difference on all the reproductions I've seen so far. There is never the U.S. Patenet nuber stamped on the base. I assume for legal issues, because that patent number obviously would not apply at all to these reproductions, and if anything would further violate any patents that were either 1) Pending on any of the reproductions. 2) Were still effective on the original, since I believe they last for about 70 years (assuming that anyone still holds the rights to the originals). However close these repros might be, they'll never be close enough to be able to use the original patent numbers. I've heard of many more differences, like the black plastic parts on the originals being made of bakelite, which I was unaware of. If you kick around the internet, you'll find the same forums I've seen, where some experts have posted whole lists of the differences.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copyrights on artistic works expire 50 years after the holder's death (Ansel Adams moved his copyrights to an organization, which is still alive so don't hold your breath on mass marketing "moonrise over Hernandez" any time soon). Patents on the other hand are for the most part good for 17 years. Occasionally an extension is given which I think increases the life to 28.

In either case these patents have long since gone into public domain, further a patent only gives you the right to sue. I don't think anybody aquired the rights to the flash when Graflex was going belly up, so there really isn't anybody to enforce the patent if they were still enforceable.

lastly, here is a link for a reproduction that uses the patent numbers

http://www.repliflex.com/
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Chronique



Joined: 12 Apr 2003
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2003 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, as per the US copyright office's main website, copyright lasts "life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first." ( http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html )

However, copyrights only pertain to intellectual work, and not to inventions of persons or companies. Patents are required for gadgets like that.

Patents: "if the required
maintenance fee and any applicable surcharge are not paid in a patent
requiring such payment, the patent will expire at the end of the 4th,
8th, or 12th anniversary of the grant of the patent depending upon the
first maintenance fee which was not paid." ( http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/sol/og/1998/week37/patexp1.htm )

Patents don't expire if you pay the maintenance fees. So, either way, it is fraudulent to place a patent number on anything that you don't hold that patent for, even an expired one. I guess the replicas made in Asia don't really pay heed to international patent law, though.
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Flashnut29



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 4
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that this thread is old but I just thought I would post a reply that I got in August when I e-mailed Repliflex (another maker of repro Graflex)with concerns about people passing replicas as authentic
Here is the reply:

Hi, thanks for your concerns. Ours are a tad bit different. The Patent
Number is not included on the bottom and all of the pins have a square head,
unlike the original (has hex heads). So both the bottom and top have a "tell-
tale" behind them to recognize that they are replicas. Also, the clamp lever
is not quite exact. You can tell there is a difference. Other than that,
it's dead on!

Let me know if you have any other questions or concerns. Thanks!

Jeff Hammontree
Repliflex Sales
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2003 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for that informative update!

Les
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