Graflex.org Forum Index Graflex.org
Get help with your Graflex questions here
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Cams; Xenar - Optar test

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Lenses Help
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
Being new here (first post) I hope to not fudge this up too much. *S*
I have a Crown Graphic with top rangefinder camera and a 135mm Optar lens. I also have a Schneider Xenar 135mm lens in Syncro Compur shutter. I received the Xenar lens a couple of years ago from Jacks camera via ebay win. Came in a nice Graflex box and is a wonderful lens and shutter. It has some small paper packing in the box, and the other day I happened to look under the paper and there was a little envelope with 135 mm cam written on the envelope. I opened the envelope and there was a small flat metal piece with a hole in it that say 8" P26. I think that fits for a 203mm lens, correct?

Where does it go on the camera?

Point of note regarding xenar and Optar lenses: The Optars must have been pretty good design and well made lenses! I did a test shoot with Polaoid 4X5 sheet film in my 545 holder. Set the Crown Graphic on the tripod, focused at a white printed page from a book. Measured the light to what was right for exposure. FOCUSED using the ground glass and loupe. Took the picture with the 135mm Optar lens.

Then I put the Schneider Xenar lens on. Both are 135 mm but I had to re-focus the picture. It appears that the 135mm Optar and Xenar don't focus at the same spot. Took the picture on the same settings for shutter speed and aperture. Compared the 2 pictures with a magnifying glass. I'll keep the Optar on the camera. You know I found that the lettering on the page I took was sharper and more defined and you could read some of the more smaller type with the Optar lens, as compared to the Xenar?? I was really surprised as I thought the Xenar would outperform this lens.

Why is the focus plane off a little between the two lenses, even though they are both 135mm??

Thanks!

Cheers!!!

_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct - the P26 is ONE of the cams for an 8" lens. Actually, Graflex provided three. Graflex was very precise in both cams and distance scales. If you haven't been told before, then you'll be interested to learn they measured the FL of each lens before providing those items.

In the case of the 8" lens, they provided the #25 cam for a lens with a FL of 201.60mm; the 26 [you have] for a 203.2mm lens; and a #27 cam for a 204.77mm lens. All of these were commonly known as an "8 inch lens".

Installation is very straightforward. There's a thread on this helpboard right now discussing that, so I won't repeat it.

I'm not surprised about the Xenar performance. Les will know more, but it's my understanding the Xenar was a cheaper lens than the Optar, and apparently you got what you paid for. From the discussion above, you'll now understand why 135mm isn't always 135mm. FYI, Graflex also had three cams for "135mm" lenses too.

To show you their versitility, for focusing scales, they had 12 scales for 127mm lenses, and 6 scales for 135mm lenses. Their work was VERY accurate, and it just makes you appreciate your Graphic even more. Hope that helps.

Oh, one last thing: PLEASE ask questions! That's what this board is all about. We ALL learn from the discussions here. There's no way to "mess up". Sometimes, you might [as here] be gently reminded to read the other threads because there's a lot of info already here. But, if you can't find what you're looking for, just ASK! Welcome to the Wonderful World of Graflex!

Alec

[ This Message was edited by: alecj on 2002-09-07 10:07 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the same reason that a 3.0 liter engine in your car isn't exactly 3 litters.

Slight changes in manufacturing causes a slight change in the true focal length. a stated 135 could very a couple of mm either way. You may have gotten two lenses one was a bit short of 135 and the other a bit long.

Today, name Schneider has a high regard. Wollensak, and Kodak, since they are no longer producing lenses, are thought of a junk. The mantra these days is "the US can touch the quality of German glass"

Well that may be true today, but in the 50s, Germany was still getting on its feat, labor was cheap and was generally thought of the way we think of Taiwan or Hong Kong today.

The Schneider Xenar was the lens on the now famous "Crown Special". They usually go for 20% more than the same camera with an optar or Ektar.

The truth is, when introduced, the Special was cheaper than the same camera with an Ektar.

That was due, no doubt to the cheaper lens, but was the Xenar cheaper because of quality? or because of currency exchange at the time? I don't have an answer, but at least for that lens on your camera you do!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your comments and remarks guys!

Getting back to the 2 pictures I took, 1 with the Xenar and #2 with the Graflex Optar. The page was a printed back page of a book with white background. No I wasn't close as close wouldn't be as exacting. Get close enough and you probably couldn't get the information you wanted. A good friend of mine in Nebraska, who has passed away, always tested his lenses shooting at a radio tower about 6 miles away. Films were developed the same, the only variable was the lens, then he would enlarge them HUGELY! You could see the guide wires on some lenses and not on others.

The first glance at the Polaroid 4X5 print, using their positive/negative Black and white stuff, shows immediately a marked difference. Get out the magnifier and look closely and you see words, sentences etc with the Optar.. Same close look with the picture taken with the Xenar only shows some words, and they were the ones in the larger typeface and bold. Very few other words could be read.

Point is, if you take a shot and enlarge it to say 5X7 you are probably not going to notice a great difference in the picture of say, a landscape, or other thing. Blow it up to 8X10 and above and I'm sure the difference will become most evident.

Winner: Graflex Optar no question.

I got the 135mm Xenar because it was a good shutter (still is) and the price was pretty good,and I was going to use it for my 4X5 view camera. I based it on the name "Schneider" . Now I know better. *S*

I'll do a search for the 'Cam' thing you had mentioned about. If I don't find it, I'll let ya all know.

Cheers!


_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok... alecj *S* Can you point me to the general thread that has the installation of rangefinder cams??

Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vernon, the thread I was thinking about is under Speed Graphic Help, and is titled "Top Rangefinder Cam for Pacemaker Crown 45". There are others as well. We have a very good SEARCH function here. For instance, based on this question, if you enter "cams" and search all forums, you'll get a LOT of information about cams. If that doesn't answer your questions, then fire away.

Now, my question: What's with this *S* business?

[If that's meant to be a smile, look under the FAQ for "Can I use smiles?"] Then you can insert a Nothing second rate about this site!!!!

While I'm full of suggestions, let me recommend some more information, namely the "Old Helpboard" files. What you are seeing here is the "new and improved" version. Before that, there was:
http://graflex.org/old-helpboard/



[ This Message was edited by: alecj on 2002-09-07 14:47 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, *S* = Smile
LOL = Laughing Out Loud
ROFL = Rolling On Floor Laughing
*BG* = Big Grin
and so on and so on. I was in to chatting shortcuts long ago, and even in my e-mails you'll find the occasional shortcut *S*

Lot's easier to hit the *S* than it is to go somewehre and choose a big smiley face.

Cheers!


_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bertsaunders



Joined: 20 May 2001
Posts: 577
Location: Bakersfield California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the brochure photos and text for installing the cams----over the years, much typing has been done, trying to explain the proceedure....it has not worked out very often, no matter how eloquent the writer is, seldom have the cams been installed successfully using this method!
My instructions include 8 photos, and 2 pages of text.........And I will be happy to make this simple for you...and save a lot of typing for others on this forum!
Email only......
bsaunders1@bak.rr.com
will get you the info you need! Bert

[ This Message was edited by: bertsaunders on 2002-09-07 21:26 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3246
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it that every one thinks one needs their knuckles replaced with universal joints to change them, first time out.


_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to berate the point but "semi-colon, right parathnesis" will get you a smile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really? :"

Cheers!


_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

;"

_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
vljenewein



Joined: 07 Sep 2002
Posts: 17
Location: SW Michigan - Fennville

PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll stick with the *S* as it is as quick as a well tuned shutter going off at 1/200 *S*

Got used to that, and as long as you know.....

"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skil"


_________________
"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill!"

Vernon Jenewein
jenefarm@direcway.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Lenses Help All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group