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3x4" Polaroid holder and springback

 
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:27 am    Post subject: 3x4" Polaroid holder and springback Reply with quote

Hello!

I have a 3x4" Speedgraphic with springback. Now somebody offered ma a 3x4" Polaroid holder. All he knows is "3x4 inch Polaroid casette".
My intent is to use Packfilm (Fuji FP-100C) with my Speedgraphic. Would be this a working solution?

Also, if this works as I need it, how much to spend?

Btw., the seller has a 4x5" Polaroid casette too. (Doesn't fit my 3x4" Speedgraphic but could fit on my Plaubel, but 4x5" Packfilm is too expensive for me.)

Greetings,
Eugen

Photos of the casette:



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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will this photos are for a M#405 Polaroid holder
THAT is for a 4x5!!!

the only way to get a Polaroid holder to work on a 3x4
is to make it !!
OR put a 4x5 Graflok back on to your 3x4 !
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be shure I get it right. These are for 3x4" packfillm? So FP-100c would work in it? But for mounting it to the back of the camera the surface of the 3x4" Speedgraphic (with Springback) would not suffice.
Right?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will yes They are for 3x4" packfillm? AND as far as I know FP-100c would work in it!?!!

and that Polaroid holder is for a 4x5 not 3x4

BUT you could get a Graflok for a 4x5 and a peace of Baltic Birch Plywood 1/8" (3mm) like ebay Item: 251083219312
cut it to the Graflok for a 4x5 then mount it to your 3x4 then put the Graflok for a 4x5 on it and have to ajust your rangerfinder cam on the rail
about 4mm back
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Fuji discontinued their 4x5 Polaroid film packs earlier this year. They no longer mention it on the web site, only the 3 1/4 x 4 1/4, the 100C color pack and the 3000B b&w.

You might want to look at this site:
http://www.rwhirled.com/landlist/landfilm.htm

It seems to indicate that Polaroid made a "550" pack film holder to be used in 4x5 cameras, but the actual image size was 3 1/2 x 4 1/2. That looks like what is pictured in the photos above. In other words, banjo is probably right, the "cassette" in the photos is actually a 550 pack film holder intended for a 4x5 camera, and thus probably won't fit in your smaller camera.

Now, the question may be, will the current Fuji 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 film packs fit in that holder, or not? I don't know the answer to that, but I have a bunch of Fuji film packs in my darkroom, and I'll measure them a post the dimensions, if it will be of help.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/products/professional_photography/film/fujifilm_instant_films/index.html

If the link goes dead its fujifilmusa.com > products > professional photography > instant films. For other regions go to
http://www.fujifilm.com/ and click on the worldwide link to find the Fuji site in your area.

Fudgey film use to give the technical specifications for their films, now they do not. They use to list their PA45 instant film holder, now they do not.
Both FP-100C and FP-3000B say they are available in 3.25x4.25 format 10 sheet packs.

The holder pictured in this post is a pack film holder. Fudgey says their film is in sheet so it will not work in a pack film holder.
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going more and more confused.
Thruth is I only want to use 3.25x4.25" Fuji FP-100C on a camera that a. allows me full manual exposure b. has the option for flash c. uses the entire surface of the film. I can realise a. and b. on my Kiev88 and on a RB67, have a back for both. But I lose the full surface and that is a pity as 1. I love those big negatives 2. I become instantly the friend of the models when handing out polaroids, but full format, not cropped to 6x6 or 6x7. At the moment I must rely on Polaroid Land Cameras but their automatic exposure and their f8 and f11 lenses are suboptimal.

Here are the holders the seller claim to be 4x5". Maybe he mixed up the images of the 3x4" and 4x5"?





@45PSS: I think FP-100C (and 3000B) are packfilms.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3258
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/18595-USA/Fujifilm_15435626_FP_100C_Professional_Instant_Color.html
Specifications tab FP-100C is peel apart pack film. The overview tab says
Quote:
This film, in regular size, can be used in cameras and other photographic equipment that accept instant film with a photo size of 85 x 108mm, and those provided or fitted with an instant camera back.



Information that Fuji should have on their site but does not.
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought peel apart and packfilm is the same thing.
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coloron



Joined: 15 Apr 2012
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All Polaroid pack films are peel apart, but not all peel apart film was pack film. Originally Polaroid produced their film in a roll. Starting with the 100 series, through the 400-series, they went to pack film. Later, they went to the one-step cameras, such as the SX-70, which spit out the finished print, no peel-apart needed.

Eugen, you are searching for the Polaroid Holy Grail, a Polaroid camera with the adjustablility of a medium-format roll film camera, and for which film is still made. Polaroid nuts spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars converting old roll film Polaroid cameras to take 4x5 sheet film so they can have an adjustable lens and a negative. Others spend similar amounts adapting shutter/lens units from other cameras onto pack film Polaroids to obtain the adjustability. Polaroid made a couple, the Models 185 and 195, but they are rare, and worth their weight in Euros if you find one.

With the Fuji 100C/3000B film you do not get a negative, just the print and a half-assed paper "negative" you can do nothing useful with, and believe me I have tried.

That little pack film adapter you have is getting close to the Holy Grail, only I believe you will need a spring-back 4x5 camera to use it. There are a few 550 pack film holders on Ebay right now, and they seem to want big money for mostly junk. If the one you have, or have available to you, is complete and functional, it would be a good piece.

The 4x5 "cassette" you mentioned was probably intended to use Polaroid 55 film, a sheet film that produced a peel-apart b&w print, AND a useable negative. Needless to say, that film is no longer manufactured, although other people are attempting to revive that technology.
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm aware of the long defunct roll films, the peel apart and the later not to peel types. I think the official designations were packfilm for the peel apart and integral for the non peel aparts (for SX-70 and the type 600).
Fuji himself calls FP-100c as packfilm and the Landlist also distinguish between packfilm (=peel apart) and integral.

I get very nice negatives out of FP-100c after bleaching away the black coating. I just need to improve my scanning skills. (Not only for these negatives, for film in general.)
These are two scans from the bleached negative. Not the best photographs, but believe me the models were much happier with them then with artistically and tehnically much better prints.




Normally I wouldn't publish such bad quality, take it only as a demonstration what the negative can do.
This is film expired more than 10 years ago. Stored at room temperature. Interesting how long Fuji lasts in comparison to Polaroid but also in comparison to normal negative or slide color film.
It was exposed in a Polaroid EE100 with flashcubes. An electronic flash with optical trigger was placed to soften the shadows but it doesn't go off.

This goes very offtopic now, but let me describe what I'm hoping to improve. This will be a more than one step story.
First I will not spend more sheets in the EE100. It has the advantage of using AA cells but his lens is not sharp at all. It is acceptable when using flash cubes as it seems to close to the maximum, but even than... Also it is a scaleranger, I'm not the best at guessing distances. Things go worse when outdoor in strong sunlight. Did loose some shot due to false focusing. I will adapt my Automatic 100 to use AA batteries and hope it will give me exact focus and a somewhat better lens. If so the EE100 will be retired.
Later maybe I will try to build an electronic regulation for the shutter that allows manual intervention. Some instructions exist on the net. For shure I will adapt to electronic flash. Thought chemical flash would be magical, it is not, at least not with flashcubes.
The ideal solution would be what I have at the moment (Kiev 88 and RB67 with Pola backs) that allows me total control of the exposure and total vision of the image, but it should use the entire area of the film.
Maybe the Polaroid versions of the Mamiya would be the solution, this is too expensive for me.

Well... to conclude: I consider FP-100c to be other than believed not expensive at all. It is avaible for about 1 to 1,20 Euro per exposure but that includes developing and (fixed size) printing too. Cost of development of a sheet of color film is more expensive, done home or at a lab no matter.
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Garglon



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Bridgend, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Interested in exactly how you bleach away the black coating on the Fuji pack film - could you explain the process please?

Regards,

James
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Eugen Mezei



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 22
Location: Transylvania

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The process has two basic requirements:
1. soak the black coating with bleach
2. at the same time stop the bleach coming in contact with the emulsion side

I tape the negatives to a glass plate, emulsion facing to the plate. The tape on the margins must seal watertight to avoid getting bleach under the film.
I put 3-4 layers of paper towels to the black side of the negative and pour bleach onto it. Then I press it with a roller so it adheres uniformly to the black coating of the negative. You can use a bottle too and roll it over. You need no pressure, just to elimininate air bubbles. Or it works without pressing at all.

It is better explained here:
http://johnreuter.com/blog/?p=504
http://johnreuter.com/blog/?paged=3
http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=2850.0


Seems other forms of bleach can be used, not tried it myself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=removing%20coating%20from%20fp-100c
and it seems gel and spray forms also exist.

Just be carefull not to knick the film, not to scratch the emulsion when removing the gunck from the emulsion side with room temperature water.
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Garglon



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
Posts: 7
Location: Bridgend, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:41 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks Eugen, my 405 holder arrived today, going to have a go at bleaching the instant neg soon!

James
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