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lenseboards
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Mark Kononczuk



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:01 pm    Post subject: lenseboards Reply with quote

Hi, I'm new to LF and can't get my head round the compatibility of lenses with graflex lenseboards, I have a graflex super speed camera with an optar lense and a broken shutter which needs replacing. So, what lenseboards can I fit to my camera? can I fit a crown graphic? or a pacemaker? I have a (broken)cocking collar mechanism- can I pull the lens out of this and out of the lensboard? can I fit different lenses to a graflex lenseboard? thanks for any help.
Mark
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Graphic 1000 shutter is incorporated into the lens board. The shutter cannot be switched to another type of lens board. I am one of the few people that can service this shutter. Click on the PM button of one of my posts to contact me about servicing these shutters.

It may be possible to remove the shutter, plug the screw holes, and mount another shutter that uses the same size mount hole or smaller with a hole reducer. The hole reducer will have to be custom made.
The Graphic 1000 shutter lens board is a two piece device.

To use the built in electronic shutter release of the camera only Super Graphic lens boards will work.

To use a lens and trip it manually any lens board for the 4 x5 Pacemaker Crown or Speed made from 1958 on will work, a Pacemaker 4 x5 lens board from 1947-1957 will not have the side bumps to hold the lens board tight and shims will have to be placed between the lens board locks and the lens board to hold it firmly in place.
See: http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6333
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Mark Kononczuk



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great, thanks a lot!
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Mark Kononczuk



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can I use a range of lenses with a graflex lenseboard eg. apo sironar, super agulon, G-claron, etc.? sorry if this is somewhere on the site already.
mark
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only limiting factors to lens use is the throat opening in the front standard/bellows, rear lens element/group must fit in the bellows at infinity and closer focused distances; the outside diameter of the lock ring must fit in the lens board and not interfere with the lens board seating on the camera; and the bellows extension of the camera, a Super will focus a 12 inch/305mm lens from infinity to about 25 feet/6.35 meters without modification to the lens board or camera. Some very long barrel or heavy lens may put undue stress on the front standard and a secondary support under the lens is recommended.
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Last edited by 45PSS on Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark Kononczuk



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 4
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks, yet again!
so, if the lense is a sironar or symmar, from 135 to 210mm, it shouldn't be a problem? I just have to make a lenseboard?
thanks
mark
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
The only limiting factors to lens use is the throat opening if the front standard/bellows, rear lens element/group must fit through the opening at infinity and closer focused distances; the outside diameter of the lock ring must fit in the lens board and not interfere with the lens board seating on the camera; and the bellows extension of the camera, a Super will focus a 12 inch/305mm lens from infinity to about 25 feet/6.35 meters without modification to the lens board or camera. Some very long barrel or heavy lens may put undue stress on the front standard and a secondary support under the lens is recommended.
Now, Charles, you know very well that lenses whose rear cells won't clear the front standard's throat can be attached to a Graphic by unscrewing the rear cell from the shutter, attaching board with shutter to the front standard, and screwing the rear cell in from behind.

This can't always be done, at least with 2x3 Graphics, because a really large cell can't be squeezed through the gate.

Cheers,

Dan
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Kononczuk wrote:
thanks, yet again!
so, if the lense is a sironar or symmar, from 135 to 210mm, it shouldn't be a problem? I just have to make a lenseboard?
thanks
mark
I'm sorry, but you'll have to buy one. Lensboards for Pacemaker Graphics and Super Graphics are stamped sheet metal, have lips that go into the front standard's light trap. Its possible to cut thin wood, pasteboard, even foamcore (spelling?) to make temporary boards but using such a board long term is a bad idea.

If you want to try, 45pss, who also answers to Charles Monday, recently posted board specifications. Search and you'll find.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
recently posted board specifications
is the post linked to above.

I have a few lens mounted on boards made of 1/4 (6.3mm) inch black acrylic and they do not have a lip that fits into the grove around the outside edge of the front standard. They do fit into the bellows/front standard throat about 3/32 inch (2.3mm) and do not leak light.

Quote:
Now, Charles, you know very well that lenses whose rear cells won't clear the front standard's throat can be attached to a Graphic by unscrewing the rear cell from the shutter, attaching board with shutter to the front standard, and screwing the rear cell in from behind.


But if the lens barrel hits the edge of the front standard once attached when the lens is focused at infinity to 15 feet (3.8 meters) it won't be of much use.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:

But if the lens barrel hits the edge of the front standard once attached when the lens is focused at infinity to 15 feet (3.8 meters) it won't be of much use.


Charles, I'm sorry, but I can't grasp what you're saying. If your point is that some lenses' front cells are too wide for the lenses to be usable at all on a Graphic, fine, I sort of get it.

Sort of, because such lenses are for the most part outside my ken. I have a 200/2 S.F.O.M. lens that covers 4x5 and whose greatest diameter is 160 mm. There are many reasons why it can't be used on a Graphic, also not much risk than anyone will try.

The lenses I haven't been able to mount on my 2x3 Graphics have been 210/5.6 plasmats (Boyer Zircon, Fujinon W) whose rear cells won't go through the gate. I've succeeded in mounting and using a 35/4.5 Apo-Grandagon on my Century and a 58/5.6 Apo-Grandagon (ex-XL) on my 2x3 Pacemaker Speed; remounting both lenses rear cells inside the camera isn't comfortable but there's plenty of clearance for the front cells.

If your point is that some lenses rear cells are wide and straight and won't go into the shutter properly when attached from behind, well, yes, that's possible. None of mine is like that, the wide ones all taper to go into the rear of the shutter. Please name a few so I'll know what to avoid.

My point was that Graphics' front standards don't limit lens choice as much as one would think at first glance.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, I'm just stating the condition when mounting the rear cell from the camera back will not work. The focus panel must be removed to mount a lens cell from the camera to mount a lens cell from the camera back also.

You are more versed on lens than I. The narrowest point in a Super's front standard throat is about 75mm. Now any time you wish to focus lens X on a subject Y distance from the film plane and the distance the lens must be from the film plane is such that the taper of the lens is equal to or greater than the the throat opening before that lens reaches the focal position then it will not work.

Some people will assume any lens can be mounted that way without the limitation being stated.

The only lens that I know of that will not work are early Wollensak portrait lens. I have seen pictures of lens from the 1800's that may not work also.

C
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, I don't know what other people do to mount lenses with fat rear cells on Graphics. I unscrew the rear cell from the back of the shutter, mount the board on the front standard, slip the rear cell through the gate and screw it back into the rear of the shutter.

The entire assembly -- lens, shutter, board -- is attached solidly to the board and moves with it. I've never tried focusing a lens with a really wide rear cell as close as possible, wouldn't be surprised that some rear cells might then hang up on the bellows.

I wonder whether we're talking about different situations. Me, lens with fat rear cells in shutter. You, lens in barrel that's too big to pass through the standard.

If that's the case, oh, yes, the front standard's throat is indeed limiting. Sometimes. If the fat barrel lens' back focus is long enough, it can be mounted entirely in front of the board with the help of a stepped bushing. I've done that with a number of lenses. If fat barrel lens' back focus is shorter than the camera's minimum extension, then it can't be used.

Cheers,

Dan
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started posting during a coffee break while removing ivy from a fence.
I finished posting after dinner.
Mis stated terms corrected.

I'm not fully awake yet either so I may have used the wrong terms again.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1863
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles, thanks again for trying again. I still don't get it. This

Quote:
The narrowest point in a Super's front standard throat is about 75mm. Now any time you wish to focus lens X on a subject Y distance from the film plane and the distance the lens must be from the film plane is such that the taper of the lens is equal to or greater than the the throat opening before that lens reaches the focal position then it will not work.


I just can't grasp what you're trying to communicate,

Thanks, sorry,

Dan
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 475
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will Dan
minty lens that have a cel that wont go in the Right way
is all so to big even thow you can put it in from the back side
is also to big to us as it can whereout the bellows from the inside out

so I say if it can't go in the standard it should not be used!!
as to daming the BELLOWS is not GOOD THING to do!!
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