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Adapt-A-Roll - Frame Spacing Problems

 
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gdi



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 26
Location: ct

PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Adapt-A-Roll - Frame Spacing Problems Reply with quote

I have a really nice Adapt-A-Roll for my Miniature Speed Graphic. I tested it with 120 film and find that frames sometimes overlap or are very close together. I had read about the possibility of making the roller that triggers the frame counter a little fatter. I was thinking if just adding some thickish tape around the middle of the roller to make it feed more film through per turn - maybe two layers of electrical tape or friction tape.

Has anyone solved this problem? Does my plan sound reasonable?

Thanks
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3257
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does my plan sound reasonable?


NO.
Quote:
Has anyone solved this problem?

Well.............?

Currently made film is thinner than the film in production at the time the holders were made due to advancements in backing materials.

I have not had my hands on a Adapt-A-Roll. I have experience with Graphic RFH's which will overlap exposures if the gear train is dirty with all films and with thin base films if clean.

Kodak TriX and Tmax film are on a .5 mil (thick) base. Ilford HP5+ is on a 4.5 mil base. Fudgeie (aka fuji) are on a 3.5mil (thin) base I think, they no longer give the technical info on their web sites.

Tape will bleed adhesive and you will have a sticky goo all over the transport before too long. Tape in the center of a roller may cause uneven winding.

Best bet is to measure the distance between the pressure plate and the guide rails at the top or bottom edge of the frame opening that the film moves along. A Graphic RFH with pin rollers has .010 clearance. You have to account for the thickness of the backing paper and tape that holds the film to the paper when determining the amount of shim thickness to add to the pressure plate.

Use a flexible glue and attach a piece or two of black card stock or similar material to the pressure plate. Too thick of a shim and the film will jam at the attaching tape or strip a drive component.

1 mil = .001. .010 is 10 mil.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

will first thing first a good CLA is the best thing in all of this!
that being said the small noriled roller on th lift end need to be
lubercated to roll right best not to use oil but maybe Graphite
most of the time if this roller don't you get wide gaps as this
roller is the film counter one clak at a time if its not rolling its
not counting making it hard to know where your at. now on
Adapt-A-Roll don't have a pressure plate so the thickness my
make more of a difference then on a holder that has a pressure
plate!
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graphicdave



Joined: 29 May 2007
Posts: 66
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Banjo is right. A good clean, lube, and adjust is all you probably need, although there's not much to adjust on an AAR other than the latch to keep the cover tight.

I used a very light musical instrument oil to lube all the moving parts of my AAR with excellant results. If using graphite, be careful to not use too much....it could flake off and end up as a spot on the film.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1892
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This all sounds very familiar.

If you look closely at the AAR's frame counter, you'll see that it consists of the roller at the far end of the film chamber, a push rod, and a ratchet under the frame counter indicator. The roller has a cam that whacks the push rod once per revolution, the push rod pushes the ratcheted indicator one click forwards, and that's it.

The mechanism is driven by friction between the roller and the film. If the roller doesn't turn freely, it won't work. If the ratchet mechanism is gummed up, it won' work.

I wouldn't risk taking any of this apart.

What I've done with my AARs is to squirt graphite powder liberally at both ends of the roller and worked it by hand until it turned freely. Then lotsa graphite powder in the ratchet and, again, work it a lot by hand. Finally, blow the dust out.

To get back to the OP's idea of somehow building up the roller, this was done to one of mine. An earlier owner had put some sort of soft plastic (urethane?) on it. This is the sort of goo sold for dipping tool handles in. The slightly fat roller doesn't seem to have much effect on anything.

One tip on advancing film. If you work the bits by hand you'll see that the ratchet actually makes two clicks/turn of the roller. One when the push rod pushes the ratchet and another softer one when the ratchet comes back to its rest position. The film is fully advanced (for 2x3) after 4 pairs of clicks.
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gdi



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 26
Location: ct

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tips.

I have already used graphite powder to free everything up. The counter works fine and I hear both clicks when advancing the frame. I guess if Dan's coated one doesn't make a difference then increasing the roller diameter may be a dead end. I shot a roll yesterday by counting 5 clicks, I'll see if that helps.

Are you guys getting reasonable frame spacing with unmodified units?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1892
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine usually give tight spacing -- 2 mm between frames -- but no overlap. This on 4 clicks/frame. I use 5 clicks when advancing from "tape just visible at far end of gate" to "ready for frame 1."
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gdi



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 26
Location: ct

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ended up getting another adapt-r-roll for my 4x5 Speed. My first test with it shows that it has some spacing between all frames - I didn't need to lubricate this one.

My next question is -does anyone have the VF templates for a 4x5 camera? I am thinking I could make a mask for my sport finder pretty easily if I get the template. I don't think the holder fits in the exact middle of the ground glass, but is off to the right a bit. Of course, using the Sports finder complicates this calculation a bit due to the size reduction and image inversion...

Thanks
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3257
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I did was to measure the actual ground glass view area and the sports finder and calculated a ratio for each dimension.

Next I measured the film opening in each of my Graphic RFHs.
I cut a piece of foam core to fit inside the wire frame of the sports finder.

I then applied the ground glass to sports finder ratio to the film holder film opening and cut that from the center of the foam core piece. I made one for each holder format that I have.
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gdi



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 26
Location: ct

PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Charles,

I'll follow your approach. I can directly mark the ground glass from the RFH opening to get the relative positioning and then transfer that to the insert for the Sports Finder.

Now it is just a matter of finding time!
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