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3x4 scanning film holders

 
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:58 pm    Post subject: 3x4 scanning film holders Reply with quote

Thinking of developing without a darkroom, using a changing tent, tanks and using a flat bed scanner. But what does one do for the 3x4 film holders?
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will first thing & only thing that I can help you with is I like
FUJIFILM FDB12L FILM CHANGING DARK BOX !
and as of to day there is 3 of them on Ebad

I DON't DO OR KNOW HOW to do any of the flat bed scanning thing!!

But for do CHANGING bag thing like the FUJIFILM FDB12L FILM CHANGING DARK BOX as it has 4 poles to keep the bag OFF OF MY FILM!!
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3212
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make one or get a piece of anti newton ring glass to lay on top of the film.
http://fpointinc.com/glass.htm
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peter k



Joined: 26 Dec 2009
Posts: 166
Location: Sedona Az

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,never having scanted before, I'm not sure of what I'm talking about.
Here goes, I'm looking into the Epson v700, which I understood that the holder kept the negative off the glass.

45PSS I contacted Mike at fpoint, and he suggested:

Quote:
For your Epson I recommend that you keep the platen glass that you have and
use the AN glass as a top piece. So you have the platen glass, then film
with emulsion down, and the AN glass on top. This will require that you
flop the image in your software to read right but it's the best way to scan
with our glass and be Newton ring free. It's a tried and true method and
shouldn't show any texture of the glass.


Ok, but this puts the neg between glass and its not floating?
What I understood was that when it floated, you could focus better on the film and not get distortion. But what do I know.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3212
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 inch=25.4mm
Most film holders are designed to keep the film flat and off the platen glass by about .5mm to 1mm depending on the holder. Epson's holders may be .25mm and do not hold the film that flat. In inches .25mm=.01 inch; .5mm=.02 inch; 1mm=.04 inch.
Now if you have a good saw you can cut acrylic that thin and glue the pieces together so that it is .05 to .1 inch smaller on the inner dimension so that just the outer edge of the film lies on the acrylic frame with the image area unobscured. To that frame you attach another frame that is .008-.009 inch gap above where the film outer edges lay on the first piece. Leave the narrow ends open so that you can easily slide film in and out. You will now have a film holder similar to a factory holder. The factory holder will be molded.

The scanner will focus from the top surface of the platen glass to 2mm or 3mm above the top surface of the platen glass. This depends on the scanner.

You can lay the film on the plated glass and the scanner will automatically focus on it but the film will not be flat.
If you lay another piece of glass on the film to make it flat the side that touches the back side of the film will produce circular or semicircular rings in the image that are close together. This circular pattern is called Newton Rings.

Any imaging program will (should) have an image rotation function that you can use to rotate the image clockwise (to the right), counter clockwise (to the left), flip vertically or horizontally (puts top to bottom or bottom to top; left to right or right to left). This can be done in the scan software but it is best to do all editing in image editing software, not the scan software.

Another alternative would be to cut out a piece of thin poster board or card stock to match the image area of the film, lay the film on the card stock and tape the edges outside the image area with painters masking tape or similar tape that will not leave a residue. Do not apply tape to the emulsion side of the negative. This would not be very durable but will work.
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LelandRay



Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 115
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some scanners allow you to place negatives on the scanner glass without a holder. Mine does, for instance, which helps with those odd sizes. I have an Epson V700 Photo scanner, for what it's worth.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Same here with my Epson Expression 1600. Laying the odd-sized negs directly on the platen gives as good or better results than using film holders would, in my experience, even if holders were available. I've scanned so many b/w negs of so many sizes, and you'd be surprised by how many different formats were made in roll film sizes over the years---at least 30, by my count! Of course it would be impractical for a manufacturer to produce holders in these obsolete sizes. (In this regard, see my related post on Kodak marketing strategies: http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6166&start=0 , tenth post from the top.) BTW, if you want to appreciate how good the old view cameras could be, try scanning an 8x10 glass plate negative: the results will knock your socks off!

I've often scanned 120 negs w/o using the holders. They're only handy for 35 negs and mounted slides, IMO.

Added comment: Of course, it goes without saying (mmm, so why am I saying it?) that your scanner must have a transparency lid in order to scan negatives and slides. I've not encountered any problems with Newton rings, and as for focus, the scanner drive software lets you choose the focus distance, i.e., according to whether you are using holders or not. But as been stated, depth of field will take care of that.
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LelandRay



Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 115
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Henry, I have a roll of 1/2" film tape that I use to hold down odd sized negatives. For those who haven't done any commercial processing, film tape is used to hold 120 or 35mm film to a plastic card which is then fed into the processing machine. The film tape is immune to the chemicals and leaves absolutely no residue behind when it's removed.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1439
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good tip; where does one buy film tape? (I know, at your local film tape supply store). I might have occasion to use your method, although the vast majority of my scanning (b/w railroad and trolley negs and photos) is rather non-critical.
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LelandRay



Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 115
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a minilab and see if you can make friends with someone there. At the very least, find out where they buy their supplies. I think the blue painter's tape would work, but I haven't tried it.
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1banjo



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Posts: 478
Location: kansas

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey you can get it on ebad # 160524454943
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LelandRay



Joined: 24 May 2001
Posts: 115
Location: Mississippi

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1banjo wrote:
hey you can get it on ebad # 160524454943


That's the stuff I use, Banjo. Amazing what you can find if you look for it.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3212
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have used blue painters tape to hold negatives in place, it works. There are several types of painters tape and any can be used but make sure it is fresh, not several years old. If in doubt get a new roll.
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