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5x7 auto graflex
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:04 pm    Post subject: 5x7 auto graflex Reply with quote

Now I have one.
It appears that the front panel that holds the flip-up door is missing- well obviously.
I got my dividers into where 4x4 lensboards go, just as listed in the catalog pages I've found.
So rather than do a first-thought kludge I thought I ought to try to replace the front panel and door, at least to a state that respects the original intent.
But I can't detect the way the original might have been affixed.
Was it removable to allow easier access to the lensboards?
Other than the catalog note about lensboard size I have found nada, including the on-line manual that covers this model- no mention of changing lenses.
Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
thanks
Ed
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A simple google for auto graflex gives a series of pictures, the first one results in this:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/graflex/auto_graflex/auto_graflex.htm

I'm just up the street if you want to bring it by.

P.S.
The door is most likely metal. It is attached by a piano hinge and spring loaded to the open position. The body/door covering is XXX Moroccan Leather. The metal covers are brass with a very thin layer of silver plated to them. Any metal polishing will remove the silver.

The lens cover door is similar to the Telescopic Graflex (also rebadged Series B for a short period of time in 4x5 format).
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:19 pm    Post subject: 5x7 Auto Graflex Reply with quote

Hmmmm
Thought i made a post ahwile ago and now can't see where it went
Shoot, it was long and detailed and two of my fingers are already tired
Thanks 45PSS
I did do my due diligence on the web and have the manual plus pics, patents, catalog pages for the Home Portrait, Press and Auto, but I'm still in the dark .
Patents don't discuss the front panel much. They DO say the front door flips up when the front is racked out, and I see a plate on mine that corresponds to the sprung door release pin that would have been in the front panel below the flipdoor. The dwgs show sections of the camera and it APPEARS the intent was to hinge the entire front plate, but no discussion , nor is there mention of interchanging lenses [ do one open the entire front panel? or fight it out thru the little door?]. There are some recesses of the remaining body part that could have accommodated a long hinge , and evidence of three small holes that might connote missing tiny screws.
Anybody have a 4x5 Auto Graflex to see if the entire front panel is supposed to openable?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Series B (rebadged Telescopic) that I had the door popped open when the front standard was racked out. To change the lens the front 3/8 inch of the front standard box opened, the lens/board lifted up, bottom of lens board rotated forward, lens board then slipped down and out.
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: 5x7 Auto Graflex Reply with quote

a HA, kinda like I suspected.
Do you recall how the front latched closed, or unlatched to open?
Thanks very much
regards
Ed
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm experiencing internet troubles today. I'll post then edit until its fixed.

The modem keeps chasing some wild electrons which causes it to loose its focus on its job.


http://www.graflex.org/GHQ/GHQ-12-4.pdf
page 6 clearly shows a Tele front open. The thin edge that the door is attached to swing out from the bottom to allow lens board changes.

http://www.historiccamera.com/cgi-bin/librarium/pm.cgi?action=display&login=auto_graflex
It appears the Auto is a fixed board camera.
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:34 pm    Post subject: 5x7 Auto Graflex Reply with quote

Weeelllll
Now you see my dilemma.
On mine, with no door/front panel, the lensboard seat is back in there as shown in the second pic, and it puts the front face of the board 2 inches behind the back face of the [missing] front panel. There is a bottom slot as you described, and a top slot with a spring. First try with a homemade 4x4 is just slightly too tight and I haven't dug out what I think is a real F&S board from a pre-anniv speed to see if that's a good fit.
Thanks very much for the GHQ. I believe that my camera should [there's a dangerous word] resemble the 1912-13 model pictured, if it was complete.
Thanks Plus
Ed
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a factory A board from a 1915 Graflex 3A. An exact copy fits a 1923 3x4 RB Auto as does this one. The RB is listed as using Graflex A lens boards.



width is 1/32 + 7/512 over 3 1/4 (8/512=1/64); length is 1/32 - 3/512 over 3 1/4 or 3 17/64 +5/512.
Edge A is 1/256 over 5/32.

All rabbeting is 1/8 inch deep. Board is 1/4 inch thick.

All measurements in inches.

I expect a factory C board to be similar odd fraction measurements.

I used a digital caliper to measure the board.

3 15/16 square is most likely the C board which is called 4 inch square for convince. 3 15/16 is 1/32 shorter per side than a 4 inch board.
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Last edited by 45PSS on Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:50 am; edited 6 times in total
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bruiser



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Northern NSW Australia

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ed and Charles,

Sorry if this repeats what you already know but I'll start at the beginning.

The earlier 5x7 Auto Graflex cameras (both accordion viewing hood and chimney hood) do have an interchangeable lens board. Just grab the lens, lift the whole board up slightly and pull it out at the bottom. There is a leaf spring in the top of the lens board slot in the camera body.

The door is metal and is pushed open by racking the lens forwards. It is closed by hand when the lens is racked back and the small metal pin at the bottom locks it automatically.

The front of the camera DOES open. There is a secret button (raised bump) behind and slightly to one side of the front door locking pin. Press the button in and camera front can be raised. Again, it is on a piano hinge.

The lens board (at least on my two versions) is not stamped 'C' and is 3 15/16" square, so not quite 4". The tapered edge goes at the top.

Ed, if you would like some closeup photos of the front and its parts just let me know. There are photos of the 5x7 cameras on my website (below)

Cheers,
Bruce
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it helps a lot. Its been 7+ years since I had the Series B/Rebadged Tele. It was a 1922.


The A board I have is on a 3A awaiting repair for another member. That board has a large A stamped into the back of the board. The camera is from 1915.
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:02 am    Post subject: 5x7 Graflex Reply with quote

Every bit helps a ton
the 3 -15/16 dimension explains a bunch
I've known about this site [see url below] for years and hadn't peeked in a coupla years.
Now I discovered lots of catalogs have been added, including MANY Folmer Graflex.
-
http://www.piercevaubel.com/cam/catalogsekc.htm
-
That link [should] take you to the specific a small part of the total site- LOTS of good stuff.
-
To change gears only for an instant:
I have a nice 3A that doesn't fire , so I need to get it up and running. It has a lovely brass double B&L VII Protar. No marks on the board, unless under the flange. Also I have another body that might have some usable parts?
-
Back to the task at hand
I believe I have discovered the secret button. Looking at the front it is to the left. It only protrudes into the body a scant 1/8 inch and i gather a return spring was in the front panel.
Any photos of the front- especially of the parts I don't have are most welcome, and thanks i have enjoyed your website too.
i have made progress. A little filing on the Folmer/Fairchild Aero bagmag lets it seat nicely into the back. Plywood awaits cutting for the replacement front as i doodle a door design.
Thanks again
regards
Ed
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bruiser



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Northern NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Ed,
I have have taken photos of the 5x7 Auto Graflex front door and have put them on my site here (click on the thumbnails for a bigger view):

http://graflex.coffsbiz.com/autodoor.html

You might want to bookmark that page as it won't be accessible from the normal page menu.

The door itself is 7 9/16" wide, 5 3/4" tall and 1/4" thick, all including the leather on the outside. The hole for the lens door is 3 14/16" wide and 3 3/4" tall but there is a 1/8" lip on the left and right side for the metal door to rest on when closed. The metal door itself is 3 3/4" x 3 1/2" with a piano hinge at the top.

Any questions, just ask!

Thanks for the link to the catalogs too...hadn't seen that one before.

Cheers,
Bruce
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com
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EdWorkman



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Central Cal Coast

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: 5x7 Graflex Reply with quote

Wow
Those pic are VERY helpful, as are the dimensions.
I must study carefully to see how the secret button can be pushed out of engagement with the flap.
I am glad i could give you the url- I'm still digging-there is so much
regards
Ed
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bruiser



Joined: 15 Oct 2006
Posts: 259
Location: Northern NSW Australia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charles,

The 'C' lens board is slightly larger than a 5x7 Auto Graflex board. There is 1/16" difference in width and height which is why a 4x4 'C' board won't quite fit into Ed's Auto Graflex. Even Richard Paine in his book has the 5x7 Auto Graflex board listed as a 4x4 but in reality it isn't.

To confirm that I just tried fitting a 'C' board into all three of my 5x7 Auto's and it didn't fit any of them.

Cheers,
Bruce
http://graflex.coffsbiz.com
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3211
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the clarification.

You're sure its 1/16 and not 31/512 or 33/512; 63/1024 or 65/1024 or other micro fraction?
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