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1939 Angulon needs filters, but which size ?

 
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pv17vv



Joined: 22 Dec 2001
Posts: 255
Location: The Ardennes, Belgium

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: 1939 Angulon needs filters, but which size ? Reply with quote

A while ago I purchased a nice old period 9cm Angulon in Compur to add to the '41 C3 outfit, kind of "fitted to C board by Company workshop after being liberated from Fotostudio von Schlumpff in Cologne in May '44".
Shutter has just been cla'd, board drilled and re-painted, now I need a few filters.
Size of threads seems to be a bit over 25mm.
Exact size would help, idea anyone ?
Thanks.
Georges

PS No, data on schneideroptics.com has nothing about Pre-War lenses.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3244
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The threads you see in the front of the lens barrel are for the front element retainer ring, not filters. Measure the outer diamater of the lens barrel, get a series filter slip on adapter for that diamater and use series filters.

http://graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=264&highlight=series+filter

To convert the inch measurements to mm muptily by 25.4.
Your lens is on the edge of Series V and Series VI
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem is the Angulon is a pancake lens, at the most there's 2mm sticking out beyond the shutter and part of that is rounded.

I have to wonder if Schneider ever made filters for this lens. I suspect you either shot it hand held without filters, or on a tripod and either held glass filters in front with your hand, or taped gel filters in the back to the lensboard.

There's a thought. When did glassless Wratten gelatin filters come on the market?

BTW mine has serial number 1200312. and Schneider says # 1,200,000 was made in Dec 1937
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_filter
assuming the info is correct the series filter info, bottom of the page, may be of some help. no dates are listed for most other types.
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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1443
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Wiki table shows the diameter of the *filters* in the respective series, and the adjacent column gives the *diameter* of the retainer ring in that series (e.g., series VI retainer ring thread is 44 mm, and the series VI filters themselves are 41.3 mm diameter, acc. to the table). The table does not give the corresponding series for a given lens front element diameter. A lens with a +/-25 mm (~1 inch) diameter front element would take a series V slip ring, not a series VI. The largest series V slip ring made by Kodak was 1-3/16", and the smallest series VI was 1-1/4" (31.5 mm, a very common size), as Les's post in the helpboard link says. Having said all that, you'd still need an accurate measurement of the outside diameter of your lens front element, preferably using an outside-measuring caliper (with English-metric readout).
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
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Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pictures always help:





As you can see a typical Kodak slip on filter doesn't have enough surface to slip on to.

I also wonder if a typical Kodak slip on filter, being much farther away from the lens than a 127mm ektar, wouldn't vignette.
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pv17vv



Joined: 22 Dec 2001
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Location: The Ardennes, Belgium

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went this path, wrong idea.
It vignettes, and it slips off much too easily to be safe.
I assume Schneider created the threads for some practical reason, not only decoration.
I'll try buying a cheap 25,5mm filter or adapter somewhere just to try.
BTW Les, mine is # 1502405, 1939.
Thanks for your interest, Gentlemen.
Georges
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
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Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the threads hold the engraved plate, which in turn holds the front element, so they are rather important.
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C. Henry



Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Georges;

While I can't fault Henry when he says that the largest KODAK Series V slip ring is 1 3/16" I have a Tiffen 1 1/4" series V slip ring (NOT 4 sail I use it regularly) so they were made. I suspect that even a Series VI filter on the front of such a wide angle lens would vignette the image.
As a possibility could you put a series V or VI slip ring on the rear element and use the appropriate filters there?

C. Henry (the one in GA USA)
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
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Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/schneider_2.html
In the 1939 Schneider Lens catalog they state their filters come in a slip on mount that fits the filter securely to the lens. It does not specify any special filters for the angulon.
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pv17vv



Joined: 22 Dec 2001
Posts: 255
Location: The Ardennes, Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C. Henry from GA, there is no grip enough at the back of the lens because the rear group is even more buried inside the shutter than the front one.
More, the thread of the shutter that protrudes from the ring is too short to slip a Series ring onto. I tried...
I am currently following a few vintage 25,5 filters on the Bay, I'll let you know.
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