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"23" Graphic roll-holders

 
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gazolba



Joined: 10 Apr 2005
Posts: 3
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am puzzled by two roll holders I have. They are both marked "23" Graphic. They both have a film opening measuring 58mmx78mm. One roll holder has a knob wind and the other a lever wind. What really puzzles me however, is that one holder has frame counter numbers 1-8 and the other 1-10. I just don't see how this can possibly make sense since both holders expose the same size of negative. Can anyone shed some light on this ?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3159
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My knob wind "23" has a counter of 8 as it should. The inserts will interchange with other shells but the frame opening will be different. Some one has put an RH10 into a RH8 shell. RH10=6x7, RH8=6x9. The Rh10 will probably have overlap in the RH8 shell, 1cm/10mm on each end of the frame.
Charles

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[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2005-04-10 22:29 ]
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vic valis



Joined: 21 Nov 2001
Posts: 247
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a slightly related topic, I have just recieved my Graflex "23" rollfilm back. This is one of the old ones with the knob advance. I can figure out how to load and unload the film and understand the frame counter, I'm not sure I've figured out how to reset the counter at the beginning of the roll. Looks like when I get to frame "8," I keep advancing the film until I hear the end of the roll come free. Then I: 1) open it, 2) pull out the old roll, 3) move the empty spool to the take-up roller and, 4) insert the new roll. Okay, easy enough, but I'm used to lining up arrows on the rollfilm backing paper with arrows on the film back. I do not see matching arrows on the back. When I close the rollfilm back and start advancing the film, it seems to advance an awful long time before the counter comes back to "1." So was I right in assuming that once I get the film started, I just shut the back and start advancing? Or are there arrows I've just overlooked. Second question: on a whim I bought a Singer 220 rollfilm back insert. It was an impulse buy, and nobody was more surprised then me that I was the winner of the auction. Anyone know if the 220 insert will fit the the rollfilm back? Frame size is correct and the inside of the back looks like there is plenty of room, but I don't know if it will physically fit into the back.

jeff

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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1427
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my 23 rollfilm holder, there is a white arrow embossed on the inside top surface of the insert near the supply spool. Without this guide, you won't be able to match the arrow on the film's paper backing, and thus will not know exactly when to move the counter to the "S" position. Carefully check the inner top surface of the insert where the arrow *ought* to be and see whether there isn't some indentation there; it seems that the white paint is missing on yours. Once you have found this and daubed some more white on, you'll be all set to load up properly and start shooting. Sequence is: with fresh film on left and take-up (empty) spool on right, thread leader through take-up spool slot, advance film until arrows match, close back cover, check that dark slide is inserted, move counter to "S", start winding until counter shows "1" (inner mechanism will stop knob at this point). You're now ready to roll.

If you can't find where the arrow is supposed to be, look at another roll holder and copy the position of its arrow onto your 23. On my 23, the arrow is centered between the two screw heads near left of the center post, pointing directly at the top post that holds the supply spool.

Re-reading your post, it sounds as though you may not have been setting the counter to the "S" position before winding on. Once you have done this, it will take about nine complete rotations of the knob to bring frame 1 into position.




[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2005-05-02 12:28 ]
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vic valis



Joined: 21 Nov 2001
Posts: 247
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like Ihad the basic steps down but the order wrong. The arrow is there on the inside, I had seen it originally, but since it was not where I usually expect to see the arrow I assumed it was for something else.

jeff

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Henry



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1427
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great, now you're good to go! I haven't used my 23 holder very much at all---one or two rolls, I think---but I plan to use it more often in future. I like the wider format compared to 6x7; should come in handy on certain landscape and architectural subjects.
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renes



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you know which 23 Graflex/Graphic rolllfilm back was the last in production: with knob wind or lever wind?

Do they differ much considering convenience of film foading and winding and keeping 120 film flat?
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glennfromwy



Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 903
Location: S.W. Wyoming

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lever wind was the latest model. No difference in loading or operation. The 23 models with the little pin rollers at the film plane keep the film the flattest, though I also use the older ones, i.e. model 22, that have no rollers and can't see a bit of difference. If you were doing ultra critical scientific work, maybe. Everyday photography, they all work fine.
Mamiya RB-67 non "Pro-S" holders fit the 2X3 Graphic, also. The "Pro-S" model has a dark slide interlock that must be defeated in order to use it.
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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"
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renes



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks.
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renes



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 42
Location: Warsaw

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do someone know whether the Horseman 6x9 rollfilm backs or Linhof will fit to Graflex Century?

If so, should not it be possible to fit HORSEMAN 6x9 angle view finder to Century ? That would be great.
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DHF845



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 93
Location: Hudson Valley Area, Upstate NY

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:24 pm    Post subject: Rollfilm backs Reply with quote

I think any camera that used Graflok backs would have 120 roll-holders that fit Graphics with Graflok backs. My Mamiya RB-67 120 roll-holder fits and works on my Century 23 Graphic, and my Graphic 22, 23, and RH-10 backs all fit and work on my Mamiya.
I must admit Mamiya improved earlier designs in several ways. They used pressure plates and rollers to hold film flat. Outer shell locks closed around insert more securely than Graflex design. Film advance lever is single-throw and works smoother.
Alas, Mamiya backs only fit Grafloks-they don't fit my Graflex-back SLRs.

I recently bought a Mamiya RB 67. In so many ways it's an update of the classic Graflex SLR! Makes me think-if Graflex had only made a compact, pro-quality 2x3 Model with interchangeable lensboards, flash synch and "auto diaphraming" (like Super D models), history would have turned out different!
Mamiya used classic Graflex SLR layout (apart from the shutter, where Graflex did a much better job): Turntable back; Waist-level viewing; Interchangeable film holders; Bellows focusing; Interchangeable lenses; and copied the roll-holder and Graflok back, without giving Graflex any design credit!
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rfrazier



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Oxford, UK

PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently took my Century Graphics for its first extended outing, a 10 day trip to Georgia (USA) from England. I took two roll holders (Singer/Graflex, and Mamiya), 3 double sheet film holders and 1 Grafmatic. I used the roll film holders for colour (one positive and one negative), and the sheet film for B/W. Of the roll film holders, I prefer the Mamiya. It is thinner, easier to load, and the dark slide doesn't stick out. However, all in all, I most enjoyed shooting sheet film, and loved the Grafmatic. I'm surprised by how few exposures I made however. I thought I was doing a lot of picturing, but wound up with only 70 exposures in 9 days.

Best wishes,
Bob
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DHF845



Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 93
Location: Hudson Valley Area, Upstate NY

PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the beauty of large format, Graphic/Graflex photography; it's about quality, not quantity.
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Got first Speed Graphic at 15 (1976).Other kids were using 35mm SLR's. I ran around with flashbulbs and sheet-film holders, I wanted to be Weegee (#2084).
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