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Wollensak PRO Raptar 160mm f:5.6 Info???
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a Wollensak PRO Raptar 160mm f:5.6 in a blue faced RAPAX shutter. Recently I shot a roll of T-MAX400 with this lens and could not believe the sharpness, contrast and greyscale resolution it produces!

So, I decided to see if I could learn about its element structure and circle of illumination. Maybe some details about it's lens coating, manufacturing date, etc. etc.

I have been everywhere the WWW will let me search and can not find ANY!!! reference to this lens? It does not exist. . .

Does anybody know anything about this magnificient lens? I can live with being in the dark but my curiousity has overcome me. . .
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1885
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-11 11:32, PC wrote:
I own a Wollensak PRO Raptar 160mm f:5.6 in a blue faced RAPAX shutter. Recently I shot a roll of T-MAX400 with this lens and could not believe the sharpness, contrast and greyscale resolution it produces!

So, I decided to see if I could learn about its element structure and circle of illumination. Maybe some details about it's lens coating, manufacturing date, etc. etc.

I have been everywhere the WWW will let me search and can not find ANY!!! reference to this lens? It does not exist. . .

Does anybody know anything about this magnificient lens? I can live with being in the dark but my curiousity has overcome me. . .
Ah. Another one of Bob Novak's customers, I bet. It has 6 elements in 4 groups, pretty symmetrical. Wollensak's answer to Schneider's Symmar. They also made a similar enlarging lens.

I have one just like yours, also a 101/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar that I put in front of a Copal #1. As best as I can tell, my 101/4.5 and 105/3.7 Ektars are much better at normal distances. Haven't tried it for close-up (around 1:1), the application for which I got it because I lucked into a 100/6.3 Luminar and then a 100/6.3 Reichert that's even better.

Cheers,

Dan
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2002 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You, I don't know the name you mention this lens came to me attached to a Graphic View camera a couple of years ago. I kept the lens and sold most of the rest of that particular system. I was noticing today how "symmetrical" the construction is.

Thnaks again for the info
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1885
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-11 15:38, PC wrote:
Thank You, I don't know the name you mention this lens came to me attached to a Graphic View camera a couple of years ago. I kept the lens and sold most of the rest of that particular system. I was noticing today how "symmetrical" the construction is.

Thnaks again for the info


Come to think of it, there's also a 210/5.6 If you're interested, visit http://www.banoptical.com/

And, come to think of it again, I've seen a couple of "Enlarging Pro Raptars" (90/4.5, 135/4.5) that had to have been tessar formula lenses.

Cheers,

Dan
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting,the 210 is a fast 5.6! Do you have any idea of when these PRO series were produced? I've recently purchased a Linhof/Schneider 210 and a 150 symmar so I am preparing to put up a Pacemaker Speed and three Graphic Optar lenses on eBay. TO MANY TOYS! I like this Pro Raptar and will probably keep it with my 6X9 outfit but not sure. I span from 58mm Grandagon to a 370 Symmar. Just have to many lenses in the middle ranges.
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1885
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-13 05:07, PC wrote:
That's interesting,the 210 is a fast 5.6! Do you have any idea of when these PRO series were produced? I've recently purchased a Linhof/Schneider 210 and a 150 symmar so I am preparing to put up a Pacemaker Speed and three Graphic Optar lenses on eBay. TO MANY TOYS! I like this Pro Raptar and will probably keep it with my 6X9 outfit but not sure. I span from 58mm Grandagon to a 370 Symmar. Just have to many lenses in the middle ranges.
I'm not certain when they were made. Would expect late '60s.

What serial number does your 160 have? Mine is E56542. And (big worry when I was contemplating buying it) the rear cell fits inside a 2x3 Pacemaker front standard. My 101/5.6 is D58026. Ok, does anyone out there know how to decode Wollensak serial numbers, or even if it can be done?

Does yours have the CW mark indicating that its coated? Mine doesn't, but the seller (Bob Novak of BANOptical, not the dread Bob Novak of Pestwarehouse who sues people for criticising his business practices) represented it as coated and I think it is.

Too many toys? I doubt it. At the moment I have, if I'm counting correctly, 5 ~50 mm macro lenses for large format. Really should sell some of them, probably on the auction venue I'm not allowed to mention here.

Cheers,
Dan
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, didn't mean to bend any rules in mentioning the idea of selling, just thinking out loud. . .and won't ever mention the auction site again!

I believe that 105 Ektar is rated as one of Kodaks finest productions ever. With a five element construction.

I currently have the 58mm Rodenstock Grandagon, 90mm Schneider Angulon, 135mm Rodenstock Optar, 150mm/26? Linhof/Schneider Symmar, 160mm Pro Optar (this thread), 162mm Graflex Optar, 210/370 Linhof/Schneider Symmar, and last but far from the least a 250mm Tele Optar. . . with probably one or two more buried somewhere?

As you see, just way to heavy in the "Normal" focal length area. I do use the full spectrum of focal lenghts with the 90mm Angulon as my "Normal" lens for the 6X9.

The 250mm Tele Optar is the sweetess little lens because it fits my 6X9 Century Graphic! All right is does park at the end of the rail but it really works just fine!
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm Paul but the way, the serial number is E56479 no CW and no rear element numbers. There is definitely coating on the optics weather it is surface or applied to the individual optical elements is beyond me but it does seem to be layered if you hold the lens right you can see various coloration at different depths. Presumably at the juctions of the element bondings. . .
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1885
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-13 09:51, PC wrote:
Sorry, didn't mean to bend any rules in mentioning the idea of selling, just thinking out loud. . .and won't ever mention the auction site again!

I believe that 105 Ektar is rated as one of Kodaks finest productions ever. With a five element construction.

I currently have the 58mm Rodenstock Grandagon, 90mm Schneider Angulon, 135mm Rodenstock Optar, 150mm/26? Linhof/Schneider Symmar, 160mm Pro Optar (this thread), 162mm Graflex Optar, 210/370 Linhof/Schneider Symmar, and last but far from the least a 250mm Tele Optar. . . with probably one or two more buried somewhere?

As you see, just way to heavy in the "Normal" focal length area. I do use the full spectrum of focal lenghts with the 90mm Angulon as my "Normal" lens for the 6X9.

The 250mm Tele Optar is the sweetess little lens because it fits my 6X9 Century Graphic! All right is does park at the end of the rail but it really works just fine!


Um, I don't enforce the rules, they're enforced against me. Not all that long ago I mentioned I was thinking of selling a roll holder and the censor edited the reference.

Good heavens, what an arsenal! I have a 250 TeleRaptar, also without any marking indicating it was coated but looking that way. Yes, according to the book its the longest lens that can be used on 2x3 Graphics. I use mine on a 2x3 Speed, close focus is inside six feet.

I have another absurd long lens, a 210/9 Konica Hexanon GRII, that mounts in front of a Copal #1 shutter using an S.K.Grimes adapter. Covers 2x3 (haven't tried movements), also focuses inside 6'. This in part because the lens sits out in front of the shutter. Wouldn't work that far in front of that narrow a shutter on 4x5, the shutter would vignette.

I am also heavy in normal lenses. 101/4.5 Ektar (uncoated), 101/4.5 Ektar (coated) in broken shutter, 105/3.7 Ektar, 100/6.3 Zeiss Luminar (not mounted yet), 100/6.3 Reichert Neupolar (also not mounted yet), and the 101/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar in front of (what else?) a Copal #1. I've played with the Neupolar, which is a macro lens like the Luminar; it puts a nice image on the ground glass wide open at 20 feet. Just might be generally useful. Close up seems sharper than the Luminar, which has problems, but will have shoot serious tests to find out.

Can't have too many toys, but must be thoughtful about which ones to travel with.

Cheers,

Dan
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still looking for that perfect 101?

Are you saying shooting greater than a 1:1 ratio with a 6X9 camera?

I have a Nikon F system with a 105 micro nikkor that allows that work to be done with a flat feild, exposure compensating lense and PK13 ring, I would have to look up that latter number to be sure.

I think as soon as the 150mm symmar arrives I will have to drag the graphic view out and put the PRO Raptar on the 6X9 side by side for a TMAX test on the same roll of 120.

Should be an interesting project both lenses made in the 60's range and of the symmetrical design?

Somewhere along the way I seem to remember reading that after the forties just about every lense produced was coated? As to multi-coating I have to guess it to became the standard in the mid to late fifties?

Maybe somebody out there might know about that?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1885
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-03-13 12:18, PC wrote:
Still looking for that perfect 101?

Are you saying shooting greater than a 1:1 ratio with a 6X9 camera?

I have a Nikon F system with a 105 micro nikkor that allows that work to be done with a flat feild, exposure compensating lense and PK13 ring, I would have to look up that latter number to be sure.

I think as soon as the 150mm symmar arrives I will have to drag the graphic view out and put the PRO Raptar on the 6X9 side by side for a TMAX test on the same roll of 120.

Should be an interesting project both lenses made in the 60's range and of the symmetrical design?

Somewhere along the way I seem to remember reading that after the forties just about every lense produced was coated? As to multi-coating I have to guess it to became the standard in the mid to late fifties?

Maybe somebody out there might know about that?
Paul, if I don't have the perfect 101, I think I have a couple that among them will meet most needs except high aperture.

I'm aiming to work as high as 20:1 on 35mm without going in to the local museum to borrow the use of a Wild stereoscope with automatic camera. I'm aiming for between 1:1 and 3:1 on 2x3. Press cameras aren't well-suited to this kind of work -- the problem is that the front standard, not the rear, moves to set magnification, and this limits the range of magnifications, given focal length, at which the subject isn't inside the focusing rail/front door -- but I think I can do what I need with my 2x3 Speed. Shoot a ~25 mm dead fish @ 3:1.

I also have Nikon gear, currently an FM2N (updated Nikkormat, started with a Nik'mat FTN) and, among other lenses, a 105/2.8. I use that combo to shoot fishes in aquaria, never higher than the 0.88:1 that 105/2.8+PN11 give. I have adapters to put my short macro lenses in front of a Nikon, I'm now testing to learn which one(s) to keep.

Shooting your 160/5.6 Wollensak against a comparable Schneider sounds very interesting. Please tell us how they compare after you've found out.

As I recall, coating (single, of course) came in in a big way in the late '40s, multi-coating came in in the late '70s. If I'm mistaken, please someone correct me.

Cheers,

Dan
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
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Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .now I had to go over to the Nikon "stuff" my old F plastic bubble has a 55 micro Nikkor on a PK-3 ring and I do believe it gives true 1:1 on a fine flat feild lens. . .

I will give you a follow up on the lense comparison I actually have time this weekend if the 150 arrives by Friday.

I use a local lab with process only. Boxed up my old D2V in the closet and now scan the 120 strips into PhotoShop anything I could do under my D2V I can exceed in PhotoShop but it is a resource hog and requires a lot of horsepower. With a couple of quick tricks. I have my print.

My digital camera does not compare to a negative YET! and the archival quality of properly handle bromide papers surpases and ink printer I know of.

A little off thread but Thanks for all the info.

Paul
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

re: multi coating
when I was in the market for a 120ish lens I discovered Schneider made a 121 SA and a 120 SA. "why the difference Iasked/"
"The 121 was made in the seventies and is single coated" came the answer."

I also have a 180 symmar S from '77 that's single coated.
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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Dan,
I found this bit of a thread on another site. The Symmar is here so I'll be in my shop drilling a lensboard for it in the morning.


. . .I am considering purchasing a Wollensak Pro Raptar 210mm in a Rapax shutter. I have seen very little about this lens. Here is what the seller said.

"As I recall, the Pro Raptars were Wollensak's last ditch attempt to become competitive with the German lens makers in the early 60's. Not very many were made. By then the anti German sentiment has waned and everybody was buying Schneiders and Rodenstocks again.


The Wollensak is a six element Gauss design and was new old stock - never used. Serial # E56446. It's the Pro Raptar which had a good reputation."


I already have a Angulon from the 60's and I am pleased with it's performance. I have reviewed K. Thalmans lens review, but this lens was not represented. . .

didn't grab everything but the bit about the 60's is helping to narrow down things if it is correct.

Paul

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PC



Joined: 11 Mar 2002
Posts: 12
Location: North Florida

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2002 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan, how would I post a comparison of lenses here at Graflex.Org? What about sample images? I have a website but would prefer to keep them here?

I'm running the film into town later today and my lab usually ask for three days. . .so in a week or so I will be ready to post a comparison.

Thanks,
Paul
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