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Negative problem

 
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primus96



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Yorkshire, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Negative problem Reply with quote

I have been encountering some marks that could be uneven developement or (please God no) a bellows leak.
The marks look like localised extra density. It may be down one or both long edges of the negative. The sheets stand vertically in my Fink-Roselieve tank.
Anybody else using one of these tanks encouter this problem?
Is this due to a agitation problem?
I wondered if I only loaded a max of six sheets, thus keeping a double gap between the sheets it might eliminate the problem.
I am not holding the tank the wrong way. You can tell by the position of the spout & air vent that as you agitate side to side agitation effect moves between the sheets of film.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uneven developement. Simular as to what happens in a Federal or Yankee tank http://www.adorama.com/DKTY45.html which are simular to yours. More developer movement along the edges than across the rest of the film surface. Corrected by modifying your agation technique. Other experenced users may be able to suggest techniques.

Bellows leaks at the film plane-dense streak from edge toward center of frame in a V shape or simular. Film holder light leaks simular.

Bellows leaks (pin holes)- act like a pin hole camera causing extra images to be superimposed on the main lens image.
Lens board light leaks simular.
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clnfrd



Joined: 26 Mar 2002
Posts: 616
Location: Western Kentucky Lakes Area

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bellows leak can easily be found by shining a flashlight into the rear of your camera in a dark room. Extra density along the long edges of your negatives could be light leaking along the edges of your film holders if you don't carefully remove and replace the dark slide. Exerting too much outward pressure while pulling the slide along with weak springs on your camera's back can cause this.

I've often cured uneven development problems by using a more dilute developer solution and increasing development times all the while increasing the agitation. Fred.
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primus96



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Yorkshire, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative problem Reply with quote

I reckon this is uneven developement. What is the solution. To agitate more often but in a very gentle fashion.
Would having a full tank make any difference?
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Would having a full tank make any difference?

I assume that you mean the maximun amount of film the tank can handle at one time?
What developer are you using and at what dilution?
What is your current agation interval?

Sure fire soultion is to get a JOBO 2500 series tank and reel(s).

Charles
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primus96



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Yorkshire, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Re: Negative Problem Reply with quote

I use R09, the original Rodinal recipie diluted 1:50. I have looked at my stored negatives and found others with this marking.
I usually agitate continuously for the first minute, banging the tank on a folded towel to free trapped air bubbles. Therafter 15secs every minute, in one single period of agitation.

If this is a common problem for users of this type of tank: What did you do to avoid or reduce the chances of it occuring? Ought I to agitate very gently, at say the top & bottom of each minute. By gentle agitation I mean a single side-to-side rocking motion.

My last lot of negatives came out well and they had not been agitated so strongly.
Is the problem likely tobe from the developer moving about too much?
I can always do a full load of twelve sheets and apply a gentler agitation technique if that is what is successful for you.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I switched to the JoBo tanks as I never reall got the agation technique worked out because I got tird of the chemicals sloshing out of the vent, pour spout, and from around the edge of the lid reguardless of how I held and tried to seal them.

Others have posted simular types of conserns both here and on Photo.Net.

You may have to experiment with agation technique until you get consistent results. I think the gentler approach is good and every 30 seconds for 5 to 10 seconds may be in order also. You may want to go in a somewhat eliptical pattern instead of just back and forth in the direction of the film.

I just did a search for "yankee" and got several posts for daylight developement including this one:
http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=889&highlight=yankee
Charles
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sobahguy



Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Posts: 171
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

45PSS wrote:
Quote:
Would having a full tank make any difference?
Sure fire soultion is to get a JOBO 2500 series tank and reel(s).
Charles

Hi Charles, can you post a link to the JOBO 2500 series tank & reel from either Adorama or B&H so that I could see what I should be looking for? I'm pretty much near the breaking point myself trying get good results from the Fink/Roslieve (F-R) daylight tank I've been using.
Thanks, Sobah!!
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primus96



Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 208
Location: Yorkshire, United Kingdom

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Negative Problem Reply with quote

The thread reccomended suggests that if you hold a Fink-Roselieve tank with the filler at 5 o clock & the spout at 11 as I do usually. They suggest agitate by a movement away from and back to my body NOT side to side like I have been doing.
I do have some sheets for developement. They are of the ancient Ansco Isopan and modern Maco Print Film. I will amend my technique accordingly and let you know of my results.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hi Charles, can you post a link to the JOBO 2500 series tank & reel from either Adorama or B&H so that I could see what I should be looking for? I'm pretty much near the breaking point myself trying get good results from the Fink/Roslieve (F-R) daylight tank I've been using.
Thanks, Sobah!!

The JOBO site :
http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/products/2500.htm

B&H: Reel: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25534-REG/Jobo_2509N_4x5_Sheet_Film_Reel.html
Roller base: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25524-REG/Jobo_1509_Roller_Base_for_Combo.html
Basic tank: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25558-REG/Jobo_2521_2_Reel_Tank_with_Magnet.html
Bigger tank: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25564-REG/Jobo_2551_Five_Reel_Film_Tank_with.html
or: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/115414-REG/Jobo_2561_Six_Reel_Film_Tank_with.html
Tank entension: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25495-REG/Jobo_2560_Six_Reel_Extension_Module_for.html

When going to B&H just search for JOBO as trying to find the items thru the darkroom sections is a PITA!

The print drum extension for 2800 series tanks will fit the 2500 series tanks, but it does not come with the extension rod necessary for the light trap and the lid will have a cup instead of a funnel that fits into the rod.

The information says that the tanks are not for inversion processing but the 2521 can be used in inversion processing providing it is full of chemicals and you can handle the weight, 2551 tank is too large and heavy to invert. I have 2521's with 1-2500 and 1-2800 extension. The roller base is a little tricky to use with the 2521 (rollers have to be positioned next to tach other) and is necessary for the larger/extended versions. B&H listings are stated in 35mm reel capacites.
Agaitation using the roller base and contineous, frequently changing direction, agaitation gives the shorest developement times and best results. I reduce developing time by 15% from inversion developing time. The roller base allows the use of minimal amount of developer for the volume of film being processed also.
Charles


Last edited by 45PSS on Sat May 19, 2007 7:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Jim23



Joined: 08 Sep 2001
Posts: 126
Location: US/Greater Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Tanks! Reply with quote

I have tried the F-R and Yankee cut film tanks over and over without consistent success. I have complete success with 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 or 4 x 5 with open hard-rubber tanks and good old stainless hangers following the lift-tilt agitation method described in many textbooks. I use the 1/2 gallon tanks with HC110B or D76, stop, and fix and do all the work with the lights out, no more than six sheets at a time.

Somewhere in these posts - someone indicated complete success with a Yankee tank - I will try it one more time.....I sure would like to do more than 6 sheets at once.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3160
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Somewhere in these posts - someone indicated complete success with a Yankee tank - I will try it one more time.....I sure would like to do more than 6 sheets at once.

A JOBO 2521 with the 2560 extension and 3 2509n reels would allow you to process up to 18 sheets at a time.
The 2551 or 2561 will handle 2 2509n reels giving 12 sheet capicaty and adding the 2560 extension and 2 additional 2509n reels will do 24 sheets at one time.
A roller base or motor base would be useful or one could just roll it back and forth on a counter if there is enough room.
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