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FOCUSSING SCALES DIFFERENCES

 
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two common lenses/shutters are the 127mm Ektar and the 135mm Optar. This is an 8mm difference. On a Crown Graphic that came with, for example, a 127 Ektar and had factory focussing scales mounted, would a second set of scales be required for a 135 Optar....and would there be space for this second set if one were to have both lenses and wish to interchange them at times? Also, when manufactured, would they just put a focussing scale on for, say the Ektar, and if next one produced had a 135mm optar, have a different scale, or just move an 'Ektar scale' to a different position? On (probably) my incorrect assumption that the 8mm difference would be so little, that a different position of the same scale would be accurate.....And if anbody can follow what I just wrote, good luck!

Also, what would be the hole size of each for mounting? Would either or both have a backing ring, or would the board be threaded to accept the shutter?
Why oh why did I ever trade my 4x5 Crown for a Rolleiflex so many years ago?....actually I love the Rollei, but wish I still had the Crown! Sob!
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I meant to say that my question concerns a Crown with a side mounted rangefinder.
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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2002 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There were scales for each focal length. In fact, there were many scales for some focal lengths [eg. 12 scales for 127mm, and 6 for 135mm]. Graflex would measure each lens and, depending upon the EXACT focal length, choose the right scale.

The number of scales that can be mounted on a camera is limited only by the length of the bed. For example, a 4x5 camera has a longer bed track than a 23 Graphic. And, to further complicate the issue, there were right-hand scales, and left-hand scales.

I presume the same exactness applied to lens-board mounting.

Hope that answers your question.

[ This Message was edited by: alecj on 2002-01-30 13:44 ]
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elsewhere on this site I see that there are instructions for setting up a rangefinder for a different focal length shutter & lens, and even making a homemade scale and mounting it on the track. I am beginning to beleive using the groundglass as recommended to attain a sharp in-focus image for certain distances, and marking these on the homemade scale would then be accurate. From what you said about the factory matching scales to lenses, it seems unlikely that even if you could obtain a scale from, say a parts camera that was for the same focal length, to use for a lens that you wished to fit to ones camera, that IT would not be accurate. So, I feel the homemade scale is the answer. Or, is there another way to achieve this? I know that people do have more than one lens, and likely the extra lens might have been bought recently when there are no matching scales available -and would not be accurate anyway, if even the factory was selecting a particular one for the lens that was being fitted. So, is the only way to accurately setup an additional lens today to make a new custom scale, or take one -if available - and move it along the rail until its footage scale matches the distance you focused on with the groundglass?

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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I was trying to determine in my previous posts about putting a different lens on a Crown Graphic (with side mounted rangefinder), was if the following are correct:
1. Focus scales are no longer available.
2. Even if found one for a particular focal length, it would not be accurate as even Graphflex custom-selected scales to suit a lens they were mounting on a camera.
3.If found one it would NOT be accurate - (because of above)-if placed on camera in a POSITION that SEEMED to be correct on basis of using ground glass to focus on a certain distance(s).
4.Thus, only way seems to be to MAKE a scale after focussing with groundglass at near, middle, far distances.
QUESTION; Is number 4 the only true way to achieve another ACCURATE scale for a different lens that you wish to mount on camera?

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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1) not true! I think there are several sources if you just look hard enough. For example, I believe Fred Lustig has some. Maybe not for EVERY lens, but probably for the most common ones.

(2) First, its Graflex. However, for focus scales, you're really talking about Graphic cameras. Second, I don't understand this point.

(3) Not necessarily. I doubt if there is a great deal of difference between the scales. The difference in focal length is only about 2mm either way.

(4) I'm not sure just how accurate that would be. Depends on your repeatability, I guess. I wouldn't give up on finding the right scale yet. Have you tried Fred? First, at a minimum, you'll have to determine the exact focal length of the lens you want the scale for. Also, it may be critical where you install the infinity stops. You need to be talking to an experienced repairman.

Alec
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2002 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Alecj.......helps a lot.
As to my #2 Q., I had read that when the cameras were mfr'd that they had a supply of scales from which to select one to exactly mate with the particular lens installed on the camera and so, my Q#3 meant that if one were to find a scale today...somewhere...that it might not be as close to accurate as what Graflex had when they could pick from many available to them. And, if got one today, would placement produce accuracy. Your additional point of the Infinity stops was something I was not aware of as to being part of the whole equation of another lens and a matching scale.
Will look into it a bit more and try to understand it....think I do from your last post.
Your #4 point is intriguing....is the stated focal length of the lens not good enough.....would need to determine "exact" focal length? How would one do this?
Am new to forum....how to contact Fred Lustig? I think I read somewhere he has a web site....and business?

PS Just bought a 4X5 Crown Graphic like I had years ago.....haven't received it yet, so hope it is as good as I understand it to be. It has a 135mm f/4.7 Optar and my Crown of years ago had an Ektar in Supermatic X.
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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2002 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can contact Fred at:

Mr. Fred Lustig
4790 Caughlin Pkwy #433
Reno, NV 89509
755/746-0111

He doesn't give out his e-mail address. He's been in Europe for several weeks, so he may, or may not answer the phone right now.

BTW, I'm not denigrating other repair persons in recommending Fred. For instance I've used, and highly recommend Steve Grimes also, and I note others have as well. For Graflex, however, its just a fact that Fred seems to have more Graflex parts and concentrates on those cameras.

Yes, the focal length of these lenses does vary, sometimes by several mm. A 135 is not necessarily a 135. In fact, as I said before, especialy with the 127 mm, there were apparently wide variances. I can't speak to how the FL is measured, but I don't believe its that complicated for someone with the right equipment. Once that's determined, then all they did was chose the corresponding scale. I have a list of the scales and the measurements they applied to.

Yes, the infinity stops are an integral part of the setup. I can't speak as to how their positioning was chosen.

Hope you like your "new" Crown. I have that in a SR, with that same lens, and sure love mine.

Hope that helps. If not, then keep asking. We all continue to learn here. I love to see the continued "life" of these cameras.

Alec




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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2002 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Alec. & for Fred Lustig address.
You stated: "I have a list of the scales and the measurements they applied to."
Any chance you could post this, or is it too big?


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alecj



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 853
Location: Alabama

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2002 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a way to do that, but I'll try to identify any scale if you give me the number on the back.
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Lensman



Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 63
Location: British Columbia

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2002 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Alecj..Not ready to proceed with your kind offer to identify a scale by numbers on back, but thanks, good to know the info though.
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3209
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2002 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are not too adventuresome here are some close by tips:

http://graflex.org/sitelist.html

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/super-graphic-cams.html

http://graflex.org/speed-graphic/top-rangefinder-cams.html

Happy shooting
Charles

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